Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 606
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
A request from thegurio,

Image

I think this is a cell (there are 80 of them) from the Phev's Hv battery pack. This is the only one on GS Yuasa Corp website that comes close to the specs quoted by Mitsubishi and is same colour as seen on page 1 of this discussion or sticky.

Note it says 50Ah where the Phev specs shows 40Ah but I think this is because Mitsubishi derate the battery for longevity. This battery is 50Ah 6C discharge (300 amps) derated to 40Ah 5C (200 amps). Good for long life.

Regards Trex.

Material from GS Yuasa Corp


Last edited by Trex on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Trex wrote:
This is something I have been working on for a while and I hope it makes sense. it is basically a combination of the previous graphs plotted at the axles. Thanks for your help with this anko.

Regards Trex.
Haha. You are welcome. Just a thought: torque from front E-motor at 120 km/h is about 65-ish Nm. Torque from the engine at that speed is about 170 Nm. But when comparing front motor gear ratio with engine gear ratio, I would think the E-motor is spinning more than 3 times as fast as the engine and therefore I would expect that, at 120 km/h, the E-motor would still deliver more torque (at the wheels) than the engine could?


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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Yesterday, on a long stretch of motorway, I emptied my battery, started logging and hit charge (this was not a warm start). I aimed at continuing that way until it stopped charging, but I ran out of runway before I reached that point. Or actually, I ended up with enough EV range to reach my destination, before it stopped charging. Then I aborted my attempt. This is the graph for the run. Guess where I reached approx. 50% SOC ....

From top to bottom:
Blue = speed (about 100 km/h)
Red= rpm (about 2670)

Red = Torque
Blue = Power

Red = Inst. fuel consumption (about 11.2 l/100 km/h until I reach half way)

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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Nice logging but what am I supposed to infer?

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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:31 pm 
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Location: London, UK.
Titan wrote:
Nice logging but what am I supposed to infer?

I think he's trying to show that fuel economy is rubbish if you charge whilst driving on the motorway. :)
25mpg@62mph is not good!

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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
davebodger wrote:
I think he's trying to show that fuel economy is rubbish if you charge whilst driving on the motorway. :)
25mpg@62mph is not good!

No, that is not what he was trying to show :mrgreen: . Whatever MPG you see is not bad at all, when you take in to account that you are gaining 'free EV miles' to be spent later. And then the average MPG will drop when you spend three free miles. Let's not forget, driving in normal mode (no charge, no save) beyond EV range does exactly the same thing. Except for a shorter period of time.

What he was trying to demonstrate is that fuel consumption goes down when SOC goes up. In our car, lower fuel consumption means less efficiency. For this reason, he is advocating not to keep SOC too high, during normal driving, by use of save or charge mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
Posts: 1102
Location: South Australia
Trex wrote:
Hi,
Hope this works so here goes and thanks to anko for permission.

Image

I know anko has posted this before but I was hoping these will be placed in a sticky in the Technical discussions so it can be found easily for new members etc.

Note the sawtooth lines on the graph.

Regards Trex.


Had my PHEV down to 21%SOC today and what do you know, Aircon still working and the turtle did not appear. AUS shipped PHEV may still have a different firmware version with lower limits. Will see if I can get the turtle to appear, with some data to match.

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8kW Solar Self Use, 16kWh 24V LYP battery, 3.3kW Battery Inverter
PHEV Solar Recharging Station
1.7kW Solar Grid connect

Make the GRID your friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:03 am 
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Location: Lyon, France
- Aircon : maybe it was necessary for the battery cooling (what was the outside T° when you did this observation ?), so it worked also inside the car ?
- Turtle mode : the graph shows the limit at 20 °C, doesn't it ?


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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:52 am 
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Location: South Australia
Aircon was still working in the cabin.

OBD had the %SOC at 21%.

Car recovered some %SOC and the saw tooth pattern occurred from 28.5%SOC to 30.5%SOC, and this sort of matches up with the graph. It seems that only under some extremes of load, that the PHEV cannot keep up with the demands, and my PHEV is not any different to others. If the hill had been just a little longer, then possibly the turtle would have appeared. Have another hill to test on that is about 50% longer with a higher climb, but not quite as steep.

Will be looking at the brakes soon. Preliminary data is showing that the regen copes well with all but severe stops.

Image

The white trace is mechanical brakes activated

The blue is current into the battery. There is some recharging with NORMAL mode as I was testing with the depleted battery.

This was a windy hilly test, with many 40kph and 50kph bends. I did not race the PHEV, as it was at night. Was just over half an hour of driving. The distance and fuel has to be halved as I am sampling 2x per second, and have yet to readjust the app for that.

The PHEV calculated an average petrol economy of 6.8L/100km and I calculated 6.6L/100km from the RAW OBD data. I am now using the Torque PRO latest versions calculated L/100km and this correlates better with the brim to brim petrol and distance travelled in other tests, with the PHEV calculated L/100km.

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8kW Solar Self Use, 16kWh 24V LYP battery, 3.3kW Battery Inverter
PHEV Solar Recharging Station
1.7kW Solar Grid connect

Make the GRID your friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Technical graphs and images
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
gwatpe wrote:
It seems that only under some extremes of load, that the PHEV cannot keep up with the demands, and ...
Could it be that the PHEV steps up when needed? As we know normally thePHEV tries to maintain approx. 30% SOC at motorway speeds. Returning from my summer vacation, while towing my caravan into a strong headwind, the car was clearly not able to maintain this 30% SOC. The percentage plummeted to approx 21 - 22. Once there, the PHEV started to make more of an effort and managed to crawl back to 25%, when it eased off again. This resulted so to speak in a 'secondary' hysteresis cycle, which I had a feeling the PHEV could have maintained forever. It managed to do so for 2 hours anyway.


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