Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:33 am
Posts: 34
Trex wrote:
As for your other complaints about "warranty issues" I do not know how it is where you live but here Mitsubishi do NOT own the dealerships. I suggest you try another dealer because from my experience some are definitely better than others. And yes I know from experience that it can be a hassle having to drive elsewhere.


OK, tried this. Booked all 3 in for the 2 year service the week after the next at a different dealership, and have sent them the list of faults in advance so they can be ready to deal with them. They have come back saying that as the faults were present when the vehicles were new, then it must be the selling dealer that resolves them. The selling dealer will not resolve them.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1787
windymiller wrote:
Trex wrote:
As for your other complaints about "warranty issues" I do not know how it is where you live but here Mitsubishi do NOT own the dealerships. I suggest you try another dealer because from my experience some are definitely better than others. And yes I know from experience that it can be a hassle having to drive elsewhere.


OK, tried this. Booked all 3 in for the 2 year service the week after the next at a different dealership, and have sent them the list of faults in advance so they can be ready to deal with them. They have come back saying that as the faults were present when the vehicles were new, then it must be the selling dealer that resolves them. The selling dealer will not resolve them.


I assume as a business user you have a solicitors already - so get them to issue a pre-action protocol letter, threatening legal action. However, I have some sympathy with the second dealer because by failing to pursue this with the first dealer immediately on delivery (i.e. not waiting until the first service!) they would certainly have a defence that you accepted the vehicle with faults. But perhaps you have already had this advice. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
windymiller wrote:
Trex wrote:
As for your other complaints about "warranty issues" I do not know how it is where you live but here Mitsubishi do NOT own the dealerships. I suggest you try another dealer because from my experience some are definitely better than others. And yes I know from experience that it can be a hassle having to drive elsewhere.


OK, tried this. Booked all 3 in for the 2 year service the week after the next at a different dealership, and have sent them the list of faults in advance so they can be ready to deal with them. They have come back saying that as the faults were present when the vehicles were new, then it must be the selling dealer that resolves them. The selling dealer will not resolve them.


Windymiller, I have only a minute to reply to this,

I had something similar to what you are talking about and had to get the distributor here involved ie Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (MMAL). They intervened on my behalf with the dealers involved to get it all sorted. I did not threaten anybody with legal action etc but I communicated calmly with MMAL at the time including telling MMAL why I went to another dealer in the first place. It was resolved by MMAL talking direct with the dealers. Like I said before Mitsubishi do NOT own the dealerships over here ie they are privately owned and it appears to me the distributor needed to step in and retell those dealers the "ground rules". :roll: That's what happened here in my circumstance. But, this may not be applicable to you where you live.

Still I hope what I wrote above helps you get it all sorted out.

Regards Trex.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:26 am
Posts: 1
So I have been thinking about this BMU problem and I keep thinking, what does it matter if the BMU is reporting over aggressive degradation? IE, what is the BMU estimate used for? Is it just for the Guess-o-Meter or does it actually affect range? If the charging circuit only uses battery voltage and if the bottom of the battery charge only uses battery voltage, having the BMU estimate that the battery is smaller (less healthy) than it really won't effect actual range. Personally I care most about real range than the Guess-o-Meter. Does anyone know what the output from the BMU is actually used for? Does it effect how much the battery is charged up to or how low it will go or is that driven completely by battery voltage which should be affected only by actual health and real kWh in the battery?


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Dee Why
wentzlaf wrote:
So I have been thinking about this BMU problem and I keep thinking, what does it matter if the BMU is reporting over aggressive degradation? IE, what is the BMU estimate used for? Is it just for the Guess-o-Meter or does it actually affect range? If the charging circuit only uses battery voltage and if the bottom of the battery charge only uses battery voltage, having the BMU estimate that the battery is smaller (less healthy) than it really won't effect actual range. Personally I care most about real range than the Guess-o-Meter. Does anyone know what the output from the BMU is actually used for? Does it effect how much the battery is charged up to or how low it will go or is that driven completely by battery voltage which should be affected only by actual health and real kWh in the battery?


It depends on what you define as a problem. It may affect the range somewhat as it could start the engine earlier than really necessary. However, despite what many people think, that BMU was designed by people with detailed knowledge of the battery system. Spending a few hours on google and faffing about with various apps that tell you what the real capacity "might"be is no substitute for that. To my way of thinking it is actually working quite well and when an app reads the data and it says your battery is xx percentage less than what it was when new, it is not far off the mark. In other words, the battery capacity does diminish over the years and with use. That's just the way it is. I have not heard of anyone that has had the recalibration done where it had a lasting effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
wentzlaf wrote:
So I have been thinking about this BMU problem and I keep thinking, what does it matter if the BMU is reporting over aggressive degradation? IE, what is the BMU estimate used for? Is it just for the Guess-o-Meter or does it actually affect range? If the charging circuit only uses battery voltage and if the bottom of the battery charge only uses battery voltage, having the BMU estimate that the battery is smaller (less healthy) than it really won't effect actual range. Personally I care most about real range than the Guess-o-Meter. Does anyone know what the output from the BMU is actually used for? Does it effect how much the battery is charged up to or how low it will go or is that driven completely by battery voltage which should be affected only by actual health and real kWh in the battery?


Hi wentzlaf,

Only have a minute to reply to you but the BMU "guesses" (unless it has been calibrated recently) capacity of the drive battery which affects the range the PHEV can travel ie the BMU decides or communicates on the Canbus when the petrol motor will start from what I can see. You have to remember voltage is all over the place when discharging under varying loads when we are EVing so current (amps) consumed X the amount of time of that consumption is measured and subtracted from that "guessed" capacity I think. Now that description may be a little simplistic because Mitsubishi also show voltage and temps as well as amps being used as seen in this image I found:

Image


Now with some (all ? :? ) of the newer PHEVs, one which I have (I also own a early 2014 PHEV as well), it seems that the BMU is more pessimistic in its "guessing" compared to my old PHEV or Mitsubishi are giving us sub standard batteries but hopefully it is just the BMU "guessing worse". This is causing the appearance as you stated of "over aggressive degradation" when viewed by the apps. That is what appears to be happening with my 2018 PHEV which I am trying to get the BMU calibrated at the moment to learn what is going on.

Regards Trex.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Posts: 387
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK
People are also reporting that the regeneration levels are getting weaker as the battery degrades, so B5 no longer has the effect it once had.

Is that a good or bad thing? Discuss ;)

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