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 Post subject: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 105
Location: Austria
Hi,

after the first 2000 km, I wonder about a delayed reaction when accelerating with a kickdown for overtaking.
The time between kickdown and real start of the 100% acceleration is perhaps 0,5 second...

Does anybody have an idea if this behaviour might be changed?

Best regards, Harald


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2916
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
A delay of 0.5 seconds delay sounds not bad at all, so I assume you are referring to situations where the engine is already running? If not, the delay is probably more than 0.5 seconds and you may be able to shorten it by selecting Charge mode before overtaking.


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:46 am
Posts: 2916
There are a few circumstances under which it can be a bit laggy even with the engine running. I tend to drive with the speed limiter engaged if the speed limit is less than 70mph and usually have the accelerator well depressed while cruising. When I turn off the speed limiter, there is a noticeable lag before the car begins to accelerate - even if the petrol engine has been running already.


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 105
Location: Austria
Yes, I am referring to situations where the ICE is already in operation.

Such delay prolongs the needed space for overtaking on a small road in a way that has to be considered. Would be really nice, if it could be done better.

I do not expect that MMC will change its approach but could imagine that third party solutions for the motor managment react differently?

Harald


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2916
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Harald wrote:
Yes, I am referring to situations where the ICE is already in operation.
At speeds above 40 MPH then? My guess is it is not poor motor management. In order to allow for full power, the car must switch from parallel mode to serial mode. This involves opening the clutch between ICE and front axle. I assume this requires temporarily cutting power to prevent the ICE from spinning out of control. Although we are only talking about opening and not closing it, probably better for the clutch also.

Maybe we should compare it to a kick down in a car with a conventional automatic gear box.

It might be worth while trying to engage 4WD mode a second or so before slamming the throttle and see what happens :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 105
Location: Austria
Hi Anko,

I think it was below 40 MPH but you might be right that a conventional automatic gear box is not better.
I just drove such cars so rarely, that I can't remember these details so well.
(But I still remember very clearly, that the Tesla I borrowed for a day did not delay acceleration :).)

Anyway, the Outlander is for sure not bad and I can get used to this behaviour, if needed.
I will also try switching to 4WD and check if this can be a workaround for such cases.

Best regards, Harald


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2916
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Please do let us know your findings. Another thing to try might be selecting normal mode instead of ECO mode (in case you had that selected) as this remaps the throttle.


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1484
Can't say I've ever noted a lag in actual acceleration and have assumed that the initial power demand is met by the battery, whilst the ICE gets its act together. :D


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2916
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
greendwarf wrote:
Can't say I've ever noted a lag in actual acceleration and have assumed that the initial power demand is met by the battery, whilst the ICE gets its act together. :D
Max output of the battery is 60 kW. At max torque, this much power is consumed by the E-motors at 18 MPH. When you go any faster, torque will be reduced or assistance of the ICE / generator is required.

At double the speed combined output of the battery and ICE / generator (the full 120 kW) can be consumed. Increasing speed above that will automatically result in reduced torque, at constant power output. Until you go over 75 and a bit MPH and parallel mode kicks in again. Than the combined power of the ICE driving the wheels directly and the battery exceeds 120 kW.

All of this ignores losses.


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 Post subject: Re: A second's silence when accelerating
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 105
Location: Austria
I am sure a part of this topic has a technical background, another part will be human perception and expectations.

As the ICE needs to bring up the RPM to 4500 for delivering max. power to the generator, a part of the delay must be caused by this need:

a)
When kicking down the pedal, the ICE could start to deliver some power to the generator immediately. But if it would do so, this would be on low RPM and delivered power would be relatively low.

b)
On the other hand, if the ICE tries to bring up RPMs for being able to deliver max. power asap, it cannot deliver power to the generator for a short moment.
How long does it take to accelerate a 89 kW engine from 1500 RPM to 4500?

I guess this might already be the biggest part of the answer?
Following this argument, there is probably no big chance for amelioration as this aspect is bound to bare physics.


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