Aftermarket charging cable

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giulivo72

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
5
Hi, I am new to the forum and I am considering an Outlander PHEV. They are heavily discounted and subsidized here in Spain and they enjoy several advantages (such as free parking) from a legal standpoint.
There is only one spec in Spain and no options apart from colour; there are dealer options including a fast charging cable.
Now, the Mitsubishi branded fast charging cable costs some 500EUR. I thought it would have a "control box", same as the slow one. Then I did a web search and saw this.
http://www.4ev.co.uk/10-metre-32-amp-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-charging-cable-straight#prettyPhoto

It seems that you can buy an aftermarket cable for about half the price as the original one. Would this work with the Outlander PHEV if you don't specify the fast cable? Would this be a straight replacement for the original one? Or would I be missing something, either a control box / transformer type thing or some software / hardware in the car?

Many thanks for any guidance.
 
Presumably the car already comes with the slow plugin charger (control box) for a normal domestic mains socket? If you want to be able to connect to public charge points, or if you are getting a dedicated wall charger fitted at home, then any Type 2 to Type 1 cable will work, such as the one you found. The Outlander only charges at max 3.6kW so a 16 amp cable is adequate. Just choose based on length, colour and price. There is no control box for this type of cable.

Steve
 
Thank you Daff, very helpful indeed. Yes, the Outlander PHEV comes with the "slow" charging cable as standard, which has a 6m cable and a "control box". The "fast" cable, which is also 6m and gets the battery to 80% in 25 minutes, is a 450€ option. I can get a 10m one aftermarket for just over 200€, which seems a much better prospect. And thank you for the 16A tip.
Most public charging points are "slow" anyway, in public parkings and on the streets. And I don't have a charging facility at home (8th floor apartment, no driveway or garage, the car is parked on the street). Apparently there are only a few selected petrol stations which have a "fast" (CHAdeMO) charging station. So it would not make much sense to get the fast cable right away.
In all fairness, I don't envisage being able to charge the car with electricity a great deal. What makes the car attractive to me is to have the unlimited range / ability to drive it for any distance and to places where no charging facilities exist, just like any normal car, combined with the (legal) benefits of a car which is "technically" zero emission.
 
giulivo72 said:
Thank you Daff, very helpful indeed. Yes, the Outlander PHEV comes with the "slow" charging cable as standard, which has a 6m cable and a "control box". The "fast" cable, which is also 6m and gets the battery to 80% in 25 minutes, is a 450€ option. I can get a 10m one aftermarket for just over 200€, which seems a much better prospect. And thank you for the 16A tip.
Most public charging points are "slow" anyway, in public parkings and on the streets. And I don't have a charging facility at home (8th floor apartment, no driveway or garage, the car is parked on the street). Apparently there are only a few selected petrol stations which have a "fast" (CHAdeMO) charging station. So it would not make much sense to get the fast cable right away.
In all fairness, I don't envisage being able to charge the car with electricity a great deal. What makes the car attractive to me is to have the unlimited range / ability to drive it for any distance and to places where no charging facilities exist, just like any normal car, combined with the (legal) benefits of a car which is "technically" zero emission.

You are confusing the two types of charger here - there are "fast" chargers which will recharge the car in a few hours and there are ChaDeMo Rapid chargers that will recharge it in about half an hour. The charger that comes with the car - which you are describing as "slow" above - is still a "fast" charger but configured to reduce the drain on the mains supply a bit in order to avoid overloading a standard domestic power socket. The PHEV will never draw more than about 16A from a 240v supply. For home charging, you have two options - get a dedicated charging point installed which will use a cable like the one you mention in your original message and will recharge the car in about three hours, or use the cable supplied with the car, plugged into a domestic power socket in which case the control box will reduce the power drain to about 10A and will recharge the car in about four or five hours.

The ChaDeMo rapid chargers push DC into the car at about 300V and currents of 70A or more - they will take the battery up to 80% charge in about half an hour. It is possible to trick them into driving it right up to 100% charge, but this risks damaging the battery - very expensive. ChaDeMo chargers include a hard-wired cable - you do not need to carry your own in order to use them.
 
Hi both, thank you.
A home charging point is out of the question since, as mentioned before, I don't have a garage or a driveway. Running a cable from the 8th floor balcony to the street seems impractical.
All I wanted to do was to compare this 6.1m cable from the Mitsubishi dealer, which costs €445
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.es/outlander-phev/#!acc-cable-de-carga-tipo-mode-3
(part number MZ314772)
Against this other cable from ebay which costs €140 for 5m, i.e., 1/3 of the "original" one; there are 10m ones for around €200:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/EV-Electric-Car-charging-Cable-Type2-to-Type1-for-Nissan-Leaf-Outlander-EVS/1474362269?iid=162748569346&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49129%26meid%3D7d3359726e6e42eea555869c6a310727%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D162750361763&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219
And check that they serve the same purpose, i.e., charge at the "rapid" or "fast" charging points that charge in half an hour, at very few selected petrol stations in Spain (but they may increase in number over the next few years).
The brochure talks about two "ways" to charge (5 hours, cable with box included or 0.5 hours, cable optional at €445). The charging cable that comes as standard and takes 5 hours (at home and at most charging stations on the street and in garages) may be "fast" in a sense but it's "slow" compared to the optional one, hence I called it such; I just want to check that the aftermarket "rapid" one was comparable and there wasn't something missing, given that the price difference is substantial.
 
Assuming the Spain specification Outlander is the same as UK, it has two charge sockets. The rapid (half hour) one is the larger of the two. This is called a CHAdeMO socket and only works with a CHAdeMO rapid DC charger. These chargers have a tethered cable, you don't need to own a cable to use them.

That cable you are buying is for what is referred to as a Type 2 AC charger. These are not rapid and take approx 3.5 hours to fill the car. Note that when people say "fast" and "rapid" charging they are talking about two different things. The 30 minute one is rapid. Fast just means a bit faster than slow.

Steve
 
Also bear in mind that some rapid charging stations don't have a CHAdeMO connection and are for other rapid charging standards that the Outlander does not support. Public charging is a confusing mess, so do plenty of research about what is available locally.

Steve
 
I don't know about the mess. There are three options.

1. Domestic socket charging which requires the switch box/cable that comes with the car. About 4.5 hours charge time.

2. Public or private "FAST" charging points that require a type1/type2 cable that is sometimes provided by the selling dealer or a third-party extra (buy at least 6 meters, otherwise it may be a hassle to span the distance to the charger) About 3 hours charge time.

3. CHAdeMO "RAPID" charging points-not in all markets- with a tethered cable fixed to the charger. about 0.5 hours charge time - inadvisable to use frequently to preserve the battery and usually prohibitively expensive.
Personally I would only use these if I owned a Tesla or similar.
 
That is indeed what the Outlander can use (although I think most EVers and charging nets call a 3.6kW point slow, not fast). Confusion may arise from the other types of rapid that it can't use (CCS DC rapids, Type 2 AC rapids, supercharger) or fast chargers that it can use but can't fully utilize (Type 2 greater than 3.6kW give no benefit over a 3.6kW Type 2 for this car). Then there is the additional confusing aspect of figuring out which ones you are able to pay for without jumping though hoops (carrying multiple apps/RFID cards, paying subscriptions, topping up PAYG accounts etc. Well perhaps that aspect is better in Spain but it's a mess in the UK.

Sorry OP, I'm not trying to put you off the car! Just do plenty of research about what is available to you locally.

Yes, as stated above, get a decent length of cable. I have the "curly" type with a nominal extended length of 8m (in practice about 6.5m usable). Some people dislike curlies, but I find it stows very neatly in one of the recesses to the side of the cargo area and is quicker to deploy and put away than coiling up an equivalent length straight.

Steve
 
jaapv said:
I don't know about the mess. There are three options.

1. Domestic socket charging which requires the switch box/cable that comes with the car. About 4.5 hours charge time.

2. Public or private "FAST" charging points that require a type1/type2 cable that is sometimes provided by the selling dealer or a third-party extra (buy at least 6 meters, otherwise it may be a hassle to span the distance to the charger) About 3 hours charge time.

3. CHAdeMO "RAPID" charging points-not in all markets- with a tethered cable fixed to the charger. about 0.5 hours charge time - inadvisable to use frequently to preserve the battery and usually prohibitively expensive.
Personally I would only use these if I owned a Tesla or similar.
There is also 1.5: Same concept as 1 but charging with same speed as 2. I use this one:
https://www.ratio.nl/en/catalog/e-m...single-phasetype-1/31313/groups/g+c+a+nr+view
Allows me to charge with same speed as option 2 when at home or with same speed as option 1 at friends and family or at slower speeds on camp sites. Without the need to buy a wall box.
 
Well, yes, I have a 10/6 Amp one, comes in handy when faced with low-power domestic situations. Stage 1.25 I guess :lol:
 
There are only two charging options - corresponding with the two charging sockets. The big socket is the ChaDeMo input - high voltage, high current DC pushed straight into the battery and the smaller socket is 240v AC which goes into the battery via the internal charger.

We connect the 240v AC supply either via the cable that is supplied with the car, plugged into a domestic power socket, or via a separate cable which is connected to a dedicated charging point. Neither the box in the supplied cable, nor the wall box of the dedicated charging point is actually a "charger" - they are just protection devices which are there to control the maximum current that the inboard charger draws and to stop you driving off with the cable still attached. In each case, they send a signal to the car telling it the maximum current it is allowed to draw - it may choose to draw less at points in the charging cycle as part of the battery management process. Anything connected to the smaller power inlet of the PHEV is technically a "fast" charger as opposed to the "rapid" ChaDeMo charger - the car will never draw more than 16A irrespective of what the controller tells it that it can have, but the controller may only permit lower currents if it is configured to do so. The cable that is supplied with the car is configured to specify a maximum load of 10A in order to protect the domestic wiring.

The OP seemed to be confusing these two charging options - talking about having to buy an aftermarket cable in order to be able to charge in half an hour, but posting a link to a page advertising a 32A fast charging cable which would not supply more than 16A to a PHEV and would still limit charging speed to about three or four hours.
 
Thank you all for your patience, I think I am starting to get it.
I have looked at a website that lists charging points in my city.

Here https://www.electromaps.com/puntos-de-recarga/37132_emt-marques-de-salamanca
and here https://www.electromaps.com/puntos-de-recarga/8167_intercambiador-avenida-de-america
The full fat 30 minute charge would happen at stations that have a chademo (not manneken) connector, and these would have their own cable attached and not require me to buy one.

Most are standard Schuko connectors like the ones you would have at home; they would use the original cable with "box" supplied with the car.

Some others also have a "manneke" connector and would require the cable I was looking to buy (type 1/type2, or if we just look at the shape of the connector, Manneke to ChaDeMo). What we are saying is that although the charging points are rated (at least on the website) at 64A and the cable is rated at 32A, the Outlander would still know that it is not attached to a ChaDeMo but to a Manneken via type 1 / type 2 cable and it would limit the current to about 16A so these charging stations would still take 3.5 hours, not the rapid 30 minutes.

Therefore the extra 180€ outlay and the hassle of having one more cable to carry around would have to be weighed MAINLY against the increased chances to find a vacant charging point (if the ChaDeMo and Schuko ones are all taken) plus a 1.5x increase in speed over the Schuko (as opposed to 10x with the ChaDeMo), on those rare occasions that I actually get to use the plug-in functionality (plan is to use it mostly as a hybrid).

Am I getting it right?

Many thanks in advance
G
 
giulivo72 said:
Thank you all for your patience, I think I am starting to get it.
I have looked at a website that lists charging points in my city.
...


Therefore the extra 180€ outlay and the hassle of having one more cable to carry around would have to be weighed MAINLY against the increased chances to find a vacant charging point (if the ChaDeMo and Schuko ones are all taken) plus a 1.5x increase in speed over the Schuko (as opposed to 10x with the ChaDeMo), on those rare occasions that I actually get to use the plug-in functionality (plan is to use it mostly as a hybrid).

Am I getting it right?

Many thanks in advance
G

That's pretty much the truth - yes. I'm not sure where you got the " Manneke to ChaDeMo" from - that's not an option I'm aware of and seems likely to do some serious damage to the car, the mains supply or even you! "Manneke" is 240v AC power, "ChaDeMo" is several hundreds of volts DC - the two will not mix comfortably! Just remember that you must either push the standard domestic mainn power supply into the smaller charging socket, or frightening levels of DC power into the bigger one.

Also consider the warning from Mitsubishi about the risks associated with the frequent use of ChaDeMo rapid charging. They claim that it can shorten the lifetime of your expensive traction battery. Not everyone agrees with this, but most owners seem to avoid ChaDeMo unless they really need a fast charge and don't have any alternative.
 
giulivo72 said:
" Manneke to ChaDeMo"

I am talking about the shape of the connector, not the voltage or current. The charging socket on the car is the one used for ChaDeMo so I refer to it as a ChaDeMo socket whereas the charging point has a Manneke connector, so the cable is a Manneke to ChaDeMo as opposed to a Manneke to Manneke like the one you would use for charging a Renault. I am sure it's inappropriate and Type 1 to Type 2 is probably more like it, but as I am sure you can tell, I am a newbie to this world. Many thanks to all for your support.
 
There is no such thing as a Manneke to CHAdeMO cable.

There are only three ways to charge your car.

1. Using the supplied box aka "granny cable" plugged into a normal domestic mains socket and the car's small socket

2. Using a Type 1 to Type 2 cable plugged into a Manneke socket and the car's small socket

3. Using a CHAdeMO charger with it's own tethered cable plugged into the car's large socket

-- Steve
 
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