EV Charging in Aberdeenshire

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Flatcoat

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
16
Location
Aberdeenshire
New to the forum, so bear with me if I'm being daft.

Can anyone let me know which charging cards I need for the Grampian area? I've sent off for the CYC card, which seems to be the most common one up here, but are there any other cards that are worth having? Realistically, public charging will be using Chademo for a quick fill as and where it's available. I won't be using it that often so the battery should be safe. Most of the time I'll charge at home or at work but it would be useful to top up when in town. Easy parking, too. :)

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see the sense (or indeed fairness) in tying up a 'slow' charger when pure EV users are likely to need it more than me. Is there some form of EV etiquette that covers this? Do plug-in hybrids go to the back of the queue since if all else fails we can reply on the ICE?

The other query is about roll-out. Most chargers seem to be in Aberdeen and surrounding area. Does anyone know if there are plans to extend coverage to more rural parts? I know it seems counter-intuitive but an EV seems to make more sense in a rural area than on the main road network. If speed kills range then the lower average speeds away from main roads are surely more conducive to EV driving?

Flatcoat
 
Kev, thanks for the information. I don't expect to use public charging much but as and when I do not having the right access card(s) would be a bit galling.

On a related topic, is it just me or is the whole charging infrastructure starting to lag behind (perceived) uptake of EVs and PHEVs? I know it's a supply/demand thing but without the infrastructure in place I can't see popular demand for EVs is ever going to take off.

Forbes
 
Flatcoat said:
Kev, thanks for the information. I don't expect to use public charging much but as and when I do not having the right access card(s) would be a bit galling.

On a related topic, is it just me or is the whole charging infrastructure starting to lag behind (perceived) uptake of EVs and PHEVs? I know it's a supply/demand thing but without the infrastructure in place I can't see popular demand for EVs is ever going to take off.

Forbes

Hi m8
You can try www.nextgreencar.com this gives everything in your area
Asda has a lot of their stores with chargers in the car parks
I live in Perthshire and got three different cards that should cover 99% of charging areas
CYC and chargemasterplc and ecotricity which covers most Service stations on motorways and IKEA stores
Good luck m8
Graham
 
Flatcoat said:
Kev, thanks for the information. I don't expect to use public charging much but as and when I do not having the right access card(s) would be a bit galling.

On a related topic, is it just me or is the whole charging infrastructure starting to lag behind (perceived) uptake of EVs and PHEVs? I know it's a supply/demand thing but without the infrastructure in place I can't see popular demand for EVs is ever going to take off.

Forbes

I'm afraid that I don't think that a public charging infrastructure makes much sense with the current generation of electric vehicles including PHEVs. It may make some degree of sense with a Tesla, but even then, I'm not convinced.

Just think about it from the point of view of an Outlander PHEV - a similar case could be made for a Zoe, though that simply does not move unless it is charged. With a PHEV, we have to sit for around half an hour on an express charger to get enough into the battery to drive 20 miles (if we are careful); three and a half hours will get us a full charge that might take us 30 miles. That gives us a range equivalent to between half and three quarters of a gallon of petrol - £3 approximately at current prices. How much saving do you need to make for the inconvenience of stopping for that length of time? Personally, I would think twice about paying any more than £2, and even that would be questionable. In that time, you will have drawn about 10 units - over a pound's worth at retail prices. Admittedly, the operators will be paying wholesale prices, but I suspect they will still be paying close to a pound for that electricity. Therefore, the profit they can make on my charge is going to be between £1 and £2.

Assuming the three and a half hour charging period and allowing half an hour for one user to go and another to arrive (optimistic), then they can't expect more than five charging cycles in a day (also probably very optimistic) - at £2 profit, they are making £10 per day out of the point! A charge point costs thousands of pounds to install and a fair amount in maintenance - there just isn't a business case to be made.

I think practicalities actually make the situation worse. I live in Hertfordshire and sometimes travel into London to visit our office there. It's a trip of about 30 miles each way - should be perfect for the PHEV - I can do it almost entirely on electricity provided I can get a full charge while I'm in the office. But there's the rub - while I'm in the office. I need to arrive in central London around 8am, plug up to a charge point and occupy it till 6pm. Assuming that the operator charges me a realistic price for the electricity, I will not be saving enough to make it worth my while downing tools after three and a half hours to go and move the car. If they want me to vacate the point when I've finished charging, I'll just do the return journey on petrol. This reduces their profit to perhaps £4 per day - and that assumes that they can get an overnight taker for the point.

The PHEV is a great car and I love it, but I charge it overnight on my driveway, I haven't bothered getting any access cards for public charging points yet and I don't currently anticipate doing so.
 
maby said:
Flatcoat said:
Kev, thanks for the information. I don't expect to use public charging much but as and when I do not having the right access card(s) would be a bit galling.

On a related topic, is it just me or is the whole charging infrastructure starting to lag behind (perceived) uptake of EVs and PHEVs? I know it's a supply/demand thing but without the infrastructure in place I can't see popular demand for EVs is ever going to take off.

Forbes

I'm afraid that I don't think that a public charging infrastructure makes much sense with the current generation of electric vehicles including PHEVs. It may make some degree of sense with a Tesla, but even then, I'm not convinced.

Just think about it from the point of view of an Outlander PHEV - a similar case could be made for a Zoe, though that simply does not move unless it is charged. With a PHEV, we have to sit for around half an hour on an express charger to get enough into the battery to drive 20 miles (if we are careful); three and a half hours will get us a full charge that might take us 30 miles. That gives us a range equivalent to between half and three quarters of a gallon of petrol - £3 approximately at current prices. How much saving do you need to make for the inconvenience of stopping for that length of time? Personally, I would think twice about paying any more than £2, and even that would be questionable. In that time, you will have drawn about 10 units - over a pound's worth at retail prices. Admittedly, the operators will be paying wholesale prices, but I suspect they will still be paying close to a pound for that electricity. Therefore, the profit they can make on my charge is going to be between £1 and £2.

Assuming the three and a half hour charging period and allowing half an hour for one user to go and another to arrive (optimistic), then they can't expect more than five charging cycles in a day (also probably very optimistic) - at £2 profit, they are making £10 per day out of the point! A charge point costs thousands of pounds to install and a fair amount in maintenance - there just isn't a business case to be made.

I think practicalities actually make the situation worse. I live in Hertfordshire and sometimes travel into London to visit our office there. It's a trip of about 30 miles each way - should be perfect for the PHEV - I can do it almost entirely on electricity provided I can get a full charge while I'm in the office. But there's the rub - while I'm in the office. I need to arrive in central London around 8am, plug up to a charge point and occupy it till 6pm. Assuming that the operator charges me a realistic price for the electricity, I will not be saving enough to make it worth my while downing tools after three and a half hours to go and move the car. If they want me to vacate the point when I've finished charging, I'll just do the return journey on petrol. This reduces their profit to perhaps £4 per day - and that assumes that they can get an overnight taker for the point.

The PHEV is a great car and I love it, but I charge it overnight on my driveway, I haven't bothered getting any access cards for public charging points yet and I don't currently anticipate doing so.

Hi m8
I see your figures but your thoughts are not correct

I have just returned from holiday down south and stopped at 3 motorway service stations on the way down and 4 on the way back. Each time it was for a cuppa and a visit too the toilets and on each occasion I was the only ev being charged. The rapid charger takes no more than 25 mins and gives you 80% charge
So I was not just sitting waiting for the charger to finish, in fact I spent more time talking to the hourdes of people standing around my car watching what was happening
And by the way not one of the charges cost me anything.....they were all free !!!!!!
So I think you need to open up a bit and try some of these service stations, as well as Asdas and IKEA I am sure there must be a service station on your way home I can certainly see why they might charge you as you are taking up the ev charger all day. I don't think that is the general idea.......charge your vehicle and get out the space for someone else to charge their ev
Happy travellng and I will top up free if you can't or won't
Graham

Oh and by the way I live 17 miles from my nearest Asda. Visited there this morning on full charge when I left home Parked in an EV space and charged my car whilst the other half did the shopping......and then travelled home again on a full charge.
COST....... Absolutely nothing !!!!!!!
 
Fendoch said:
...

Hi m8
I see your figures but your thoughts are not correct

I have just returned from holiday down south and stopped at 3 motorway service stations on the way down and 4 on the way back. Each time it was for a cuppa and a visit too the toilets and on each occasion I was the only ev being charged. The rapid charge takes no more than 25 mins and gives you 80% charge
So not just sitting waiting for the charger to finish, in fact I spent more time talking to the hourdes of people standing around my car watching what was happening
And buy the way not one of the charges cost me anything.....they were all free !!!!!!
So I think you need to open up a bit and try some of these service stations, as well as Asdas and IKEA
Happy travellng and I will top up free if you can't or won't
Graham

I will agree that the calculations can be different on motorways and are also tilted by the fact that most of the infrastructure is currently free to use. I was really talking about the urban and rural infrastructure - charging points in London car parks and along streets - these are fine while they are free and not time limited - but they are not commercially viable while they are free and not time limited and even a small cost or compulsion to vacate after charging rapidly makes them unattractive. It has been estimated that each charging point costs at least £2,500 to install in an urban environment and a lot more in rural environments where access to power may be more limited. The commercial returns on them are just too small to build a business case.
 
maby said:
Fendoch said:
...

Hi m8
I see your figures but your thoughts are not correct

I have just returned from holiday down south and stopped at 3 motorway service stations on the way down and 4 on the way back. Each time it was for a cuppa and a visit too the toilets and on each occasion I was the only ev being charged. The rapid charge takes no more than 25 mins and gives you 80% charge
So not just sitting waiting for the charger to finish, in fact I spent more time talking to the hourdes of people standing around my car watching what was happening
And buy the way not one of the charges cost me anything.....they were all free !!!!!!
So I think you need to open up a bit and try some of these service stations, as well as Asdas and IKEA
Happy travellng and I will top up free if you can't or won't
Graham

I will agree that the calculations can be different on motorways and are also tilted by the fact that most of the infrastructure is currently free to use. I was really talking about the urban and rural infrastructure - charging points in London car parks and along streets - these are fine while they are free and not time limited - but they are not commercially viable while they are free and not time limited and even a small cost or compulsion to vacate after charging rapidly makes them unattractive. It has been estimated that each charging point costs at least £2,500 to install in an urban environment and a lot more in rural environments where access to power may be more limited. The commercial returns on them are just too small to build a business case.

Come on m8
If I can find top up areas in the wilds of Scotland then you should have plenty around your area. Let's be honest here if anywhere in this country is going to be populated by chargng points......it WILL be around the London area lol
 
Fendoch said:
...

Come on m8
If I can find top up areas in the wilds of Scotland then you should have plenty around your area. Let's be honest here if anywhere in this country is going to be populated by chargng points......it WILL be around the London area lol

I can at the moment, but that was not the point of my original post - I was responding to Flatcoat asking why the public charging infrastructure seems to be stagnating - and I maintain that there is no business case for it. The infrastructure that is already in place was largely installed by local government plus the Ecotricity points - for which I have no good explanation. As you were so happy to point out, most of them are currently free (possibly requiring a small annual subscription) - they are loss making. The infrastructure will only develop if it can be moved onto a profit making basis and I don't think that is possible.

TfL have just sold Source London to a commercial French operator - they are keeping tight lipped about the costs after the end of this year, but I seriously doubt that it will be economical for PHEV owners to use it from January onwards. The Chargemaster Polar Network seems to be the only one currently operating on commercial terms - here is their price structure:

"POLAR Standard Tariff:

Annual subscription of £20 plus:

•£1.00 per hour for 13 amp socket chargers (minimum charge one hour and then pro rata
•£1.50 per hour for Type 2 socket chargers (minimum charge one hour and then pro rata)
•£7 for 30 minutes for triplex rapid chargers (minimum 30 minutes then pro-rata)
Annual subscription of £20 plus:

Charges for both tariffs and any extra usage are payable by direct debit. "

At these rates, it is cheaper to run a PHEV on petrol. On a type 2 socket, your Outlander will take over 3 hours to take a full charge - around £5 - that will get you as far as three quarters of a gallon (if you drive gently) - petrol is cheaper. The rapid charger is worse - it will only give you 80% charge and will cost the equivalent of close to one and a half gallons. The situation may be a bit different for pure electric cars - they can take on a lot more power, so duration based prices like those of the Polar Network are less unattractive. I think that a Tesla on a rapid charger can take enough charge in 30 minutes to run for a hundred miles or more - that can possibly make sense.
 
Back
Top