Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:04 pm 
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I am about to but a used PHEV in the Netherlands from November 2013 with 125.000miles/200.000km on the clock.
I have a choice of several and all of them have a dealer service history and are ex lease or ex company cars.

What should be an acceptable battery percentage for a car with this mileage?
I have an OBD2 adapter and PHEVWatchDog so I can check it myself at the seller.

I have read that, apart from the usual things to check when buying 2nd hand, there are 2 important things to check:
- 12V air compressor
- WiFi password

Is there anything else PHEV specific I should check for?

I have a daily commute of 38 km one way (50 mph and 60 mph roads, no highways) and can charge at home and at work.
I am hoping to drive this commute fully electric every day. Is this realistic for a 5 year old PHEV or am I fooling myself?


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:55 am 
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The ex-company cars (i.e. bought for the tax advantages) are likely to have the best batteries as they may not have done much charging. However, if most of your journey is actually at 50/60mph I doubt you will get all the 33kmh on EV - even a brand new one would struggle, especially in winter when you are using the electric heating/aircon etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 3854
Location: Netherlands
Flavio wrote:
I am about to but a used PHEV in the Netherlands from November 2013 with 125.000miles/200.000km on the clock.
I have a choice of several and all of them have a dealer service history and are ex lease or ex company cars.

What should be an acceptable battery percentage for a car with this mileage?
I have an OBD2 adapter and PHEVWatchDog so I can check it myself at the seller.

I have read that, apart from the usual things to check when buying 2nd hand, there are 2 important things to check:
- 12V air compressor
- WiFi password

Is there anything else PHEV specific I should check for?

I have a daily commute of 38 km one way (50 mph and 60 mph roads, no highways) and can charge at home and at work.
I am hoping to drive this commute fully electric every day. Is this realistic for a 5 year old PHEV or am I fooling myself?
The car should come with a battery condition report and a service report by Mitsubishi, proving it has been serviced properly by an official dealer. At this mileage and age it should be in the range of 28-30 Ah, I guess.
You can check the mileage by entering the Dutch number plate on this site: https://www.kentekencheck.nu/kilometerstand-check/
You won't make 38 km completely on electricity, depending on traffic, driving style and speed driven. In winter you'll never make it. 25/30 km would have been better.

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 am 
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Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK
Check that it has the granny cable to charge it

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Since I am driving around 22,000 miles a year I am considering a PHEV with an LPG installation cause it would save me a nice amount of money every month.

There are perhaps a couple of hundred of these driving around in the Netherlands but I cannot find anything specific about the PHEV engine and it suitability for LPG, specifically with regard to the valves and valve seats.

Does the PHEV engine need valve clearance checking with and without LPG and if so at what intervals and what would this cost me?


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:24 am 
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Location: Southern end of North Yorkshire, UK
I've run LPG cars exclusively for the last 10 years or so (Subaru Legacy, Vauxhall Vectra, Honda CRV, Subaru Outback), and have a reasonably good understanding of conversions (did a lot of diagnostic work on the Honda, and almost did the conversion of the Outback myself), I'm not sure the B411 PHEV engine is a good candidate for conversion, without even considering the valve seats.

My reasoning is:
1. The petrol engine is often not run for very long (sometimes just a few seconds), so as the LPG ECU will take a few seconds to switch over (ie as it opens the tank and reducer valves then waits for pressure to stabilise in the injector feed pipe it might be stopping again before it does.
2. The coolant system may take some time to get hot enough for the reducer to work properly, as a result of the petrol engine not running much.
3. There isn't really anywhere to put the tank, unless you don't mind losing a lot of boot space.
4. If you did need to use a valve lubricant (eg Flashlube) to protect the valves, because of the stop-start nature of the engine you may have issues with it reliably getting to the valves as the flow in the inlet will probably vary too much. You could probably get around that with carefully placed nozzles though.

The start-stop nature of the engine is probably the biggest issue, but I'm sure it is possible to overcome for some situations so it uses the engine rpm to detect when it's in series mode for example. But given the fact that you've got electric drive that can reduce the amount of time the petrol engine is running anyway, is it worth the trouble?

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:41 am 
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Valid points but I am considering cars that are already converted to LPG.
Of course the LPG system manufacturers all say their system is specifically designed for the PHEV.

There is no loss of trunk space because the cylindrical tank is fitted underneath the car.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:46 pm 
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Location: Australia
Flavio wrote:
There is no loss of trunk space because the cylindrical tank is fitted underneath the car.


erm... Have you looked under an Outlander PHEV?

Under the car is where the battery lives.

(And the electric motors and transfer cases)

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:45 pm 
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AndyInOz wrote:
Flavio wrote:
There is no loss of trunk space because the cylindrical tank is fitted underneath the car.


erm... Have you looked under an Outlander PHEV?

Under the car is where the battery lives.

(And the electric motors and transfer cases)


As I have said, I am not going to fit the LPG myself, it has already been done. See photo for the location of the tank.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable battery capacity for a 5 year old PHEV?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 3854
Location: Netherlands
That is going to cause some trouble on rutted tracks or in deep snow. I would not accept a SUV with such a lack of ground clearance. One might even consider this a dangerous place. An obstacle hit at speed could rip the tank off.
For this use the PHEV is a wrong choice anyway. With the scrapped BIK advantage a Diesel or Petrol/LPG SUV will be far more economical at that mileage in the long run. The commute will not offset the higher consumption on longer runs.

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