Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:15 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:30 am
Posts: 5
Location: East Sussex
Hi, new here, so not sure of etiquettes etc, but hoping for helpful guidance.
We currently have a Sportage which quite happy with so no pressure to replace but.....
We'd like a car to do short shopping etc runs, so an EV would generally have the range however we also do long runs to Devon, Wales and drive down to Spain, so an EV only doesn't appear to have the volume and range we'd need.

The Outlander 2019 PHEV seems to come closest so far to what we'd like, an EV mode locally yet with a back up petrol motor that can hack long distances if no charge points available. Possibly the 4hs spec but Juro seems well equipped, is it worth the upspec to 4hs?

But what are the cons? it's the 2019 model we'd be considering, but anyone with useful insights into what potential problems you currently (see what I did there?) find with the PHEV version. We have 2 labs we take to Spain, is the boot area hot due to batteries or noisy that would prevent us considering the Outlander?

On the face of it, the Outlander seems to have the space and ability we'd look for, but is it the best?

What extra kit, such as chargers would you recommend, and should we start to drive like little old ladies?
Using the continental motorways we usually cruise for hours at the legal limit, can we in reality expect 130 mpg (WLTP) or is it down to the 50/60 mpg?

Lots more questions, but let's start the ball rolling!

Look forward to responses!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Saratoga, CA
Cons? Battery degradation. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3933

Do not expect that a PHEV can be a replacement for a BEV, even if your entire commute is less than the EV range of the PHEV. If your goal is to not use gasoline at all, then get a BEV. Even if your daily commute is only 20 miles, and your PHEV can supposedly go 22-28 miles before needing a charge, this is still going to kill the battery extremely quickly if you do it in EV mode, day after day after day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Glasgow
It probably depends on just how often you want to use it for long distances. Although it is capable of a long motorway journey, it only has a 10-gallon tank and will only do 30-35mpg at around 70mph. In that scenario, it is essentially a heavy (2 tonne) brick-shaped object powered by a 2-litre (or 2.4 litre) petrol engine. So fuel economy on that long trip will be considerably worse than a diesel, and you will have to stop more often.
On the other hand, for short journeys there is very little to compare with it, outside a BEV (=EV only). It certainly wont be hotter or noisier than any other SUV in the back, in fact the inside of a PHEV is considerably quieter (IMO) than most cars, outside really expensive models.
I've driven my 2014 4h nearly 40,000 miles over 4 and a half years, and am averaging about 150 mpg (excluding the electricity costs, obvs), but I do mostly short journeys. Regarding battery degradation, I would say that I probably have about 80-85% of the original distance on the GOM ('guess-o-meter), i.e. when new it usually estimated around 28 miles and is now usually around 24 miles. Since my commute is around 10 miles each way, this has little or no impact on me, but I realise it may on others.
I am considering going for a Juro model next time - Mitsubishi have improved this over the previous 3h model, and there's very little I would miss from the 4h. The 4hs has various additional things like adaptive cruise control and lane departure warning which I find very annoying and just switch off, but obviously that's a matter of personal taste!
You might like to consider a Kia Niro PHEV, or possibly a Passat GTE (if they're still available). Or the Skoda Superb PHEV is supposed to come out some time next year. But if you prefer a 4x4 SUV, there's currently nothing else the right side of £60K (Audi Q7/Range Rover PHEV!).
Happy to answer more questions if you have them!
HTH

_________________
GX4h in Glacier Blue from 17/7/14
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:30 am
Posts: 5
Location: East Sussex
Thanks for responses so far, and keep them coming!
I just have to ask myself if I'm being stupid to pay £1,000's over the odds of a conventional engine to be a PHEV driver, when those £1,000's would pay for many hundreds of gallons of fuel! Where's the incentive to go for alternative fuels?
As far as range goes, 300 miles is about as far as we travel per driver each day down to Almeria, we each take about 4 hours and stop for lunch and dogs etc. It's sobering if you think that driving "normally" means mainly using petrol rather than stretching out the battery power.
Does anyone get the claimed WLTP range of 130 mpg? If so how? Driving everywhere at 30 mph?
I'm trying to see what advantage(s) here may be to "switch".
Daughters partner has an i3 with a lawnmower engine and very impressed with acceleration and round town drive, but not practical for us on longer trips.
The Niro seems a tad smaller and even the 48kwh Sportage version loses a lot of boot space, which is why looking at the Outlander as an alternative. It seems the best of the bunch in size and abilities, but isn't looking value for money when you consider the extra cost and weight to go electric.

Perhaps I'll wait a few more years until manufacturers have a drawing board up electric hybrid. I can't consider a pure EV as there isn't a reliable number of public charge points easily accessible. Even in France, which apparently has the best charge point network, only seems to have one in the Limousin area.

Now thinking I jumped aboard a bit too soon!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Glasgow
When i bought mine, the plug-in car grant was £5K regardless of whether it was BEV or PHEV, so the list price of the PHEV was the same as the diesel (although in fact you could always get a bigger discount off list price on the diesel). Now it has fallen to £4.5k for BEV and £2.5k for PHEV, so the difference between PHEV and diesel is considerable. Unless you qualify for tax savings ('BIK'), there is little financial incentive for private drivers to buy PHEV....
The only way to get 130+mpg is to drive short distances and plug in frequently. In fact you can then get infinity mpg! The PHEV bit doesn't help with long motorway journeys - although a normal hybrid vehicle (e.g. Prius) is considered fuel efficient, it harnesses the braking to put energy into the battery, so it can then switch the engine off and use power from the battery. On the motorway, there is very little braking, so any hybrid (HEV or PHEV) is more-or-less no use. (The Prius is a much more slippery shape so it will get better mpg than an SUV on the motorway, but still not much better than a 'normal' car of similar shape.)
Not sure if the Hyundai Ioniq (PHEV or HEV) would be any use for you? Boot is probably too small....

_________________
GX4h in Glacier Blue from 17/7/14
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:30 am
Posts: 5
Location: East Sussex
Your thoughts tie in with mine. I thought the only way to get 130 mpg would be by virtual total EV use, but hoped it could get much greater than 35 or so on longer trips but still drive at "normal" motorway speeds. If motorway driving is no better than a conventional engine, what's the point?

The Government grants always seem to be cut just when they would be most effective.
We were going to install solar panels but the change in payments came in, just at that time...
Now they've done the same for cars!

I've looked at the competition for PHEV/HEV etc and whilst the Kona seems to have the range, you're dependent on finding a recharge point when you need it, and they still seem too few and far between to rely on finding one available. In the UK there also seems to be problems with maintaining them in working order, so a back up conventional engine still seems necessary, so you have the weight of two forms of propulsion to lug around.

Then there's the issue of different charge suppliers, why? They're all providing the same thing!

I think there are too many obstacles for a PHEV purchase to make economic sense in our situation, nor does an EV "shopping basket" and a conventional car for longer trips. I'll wait and see what the near future brings in a more practical PHEV option.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 3687
Location: Netherlands
STS134 wrote:
Cons? Battery degradation. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3933

Do not expect that a PHEV can be a replacement for a BEV, even if your entire commute is less than the EV range of the PHEV. If your goal is to not use gasoline at all, then get a BEV. Even if your daily commute is only 20 miles, and your PHEV can supposedly go 22-28 miles before needing a charge, this is still going to kill the battery extremely quickly if you do it in EV mode, day after day after day.
Well, that is exactly the way I use my car and it is about 80% after 110.000 km and nearly 5 years. :roll:
I plan to drive it down to ten years and maybe 60% and have the battery reconditioned by that time. That should give it another ten.

_________________
www.jaapvphotography.eu
www.l-camera-forum.com


Instyle+ 2013
Titanium Grey
Off-white leather
Body kit
Protection kit
TPMS
Skidplates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1613
KevinBattle wrote:
Your thoughts tie in with mine. I thought the only way to get 130 mpg would be by virtual total EV use, but hoped it could get much greater than 35 or so on longer trips but still drive at "normal" motorway speeds. If motorway driving is no better than a conventional engine, what's the point?


The "point" is to encourage less pollution in cities, where we are dying in our thousands rather than the countryside where few people live and most motorways are. The PHEV meets the former perfectly and the latter adequately. You need to work out how much of your driving would be EV against when you are using pure petrol. NB. Even on the motorway you can still get "free" driving when coasting downhill.

BTW - jaapv is correct, STS134 (new owner) is being ridiculously alarmist over battery degradation. I am also still getting 25 miles per day on almost purely EV driving in town for the last 4 years. Actually, here is a thought :idea: I have the version without the electric heater. Perhaps that feature has an adverse effect, depending on how you use it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:35 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:18 pm
Posts: 934
Location: Poland
KevinBattle wrote:
Thanks for responses so far, and keep them coming!
I just have to ask myself if I'm being stupid to pay £1,000's over the odds of a conventional engine to be a PHEV driver, when those £1,000's would pay for many hundreds of gallons of fuel! Where's the incentive to go for alternative fuels?
...


1000 extra does not sound so much ... 1k extra initial cost, it will implies also a better resell price

But it is all depend by your car usage.

If the car is used as daily for a commute inside 25miles ... this will allow to save lot of fuel and money ... asssuming 20miles a day for 200 days (4.000miles in EV a year) ... the saving on going electric vs ICE .. is 533L of petrol vs 1300kwh ... with I belive it should be 800£ in fuel, vs 130£ ... so in less then 2 years, or with just 4.000miles in EV mode, the price difference is recovered


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Considering a PHEV as next car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:30 am
Posts: 5
Location: East Sussex
elm70: the £000's was plural! Not just £1,000! (but you knew that really, didn't you?)
The cost of the PHEV is markedly more than the conventional engined Outlander, even with the UK Governments (now) less than generous contribution (which probably disappears into the pricing mark up anyway).
Just a quick Google gives these current prices from Mitsubishi
2.0 Petrol £27,680.00 OTR (and there's a £2,000 deposit contribution from Mitsubishi)
Diesel £28,670.00 OTR (also with a £5,000 deposit contribution).
PHEV £34,255.00

Now how much conventional fuel would I get for £5,500, let alone add the £5,000 deposit contribution for diesel?
Say £5 a gallon for diesel, that's over 2,000 gallons at say 50 mpg so about a years free fuel....

Get the PHEV down to £24,000 or less, then it becomes a selling point, but NOT at £34,000!

I'm fast running back to reality and that the PHEV is not a value for money option.
It looked a good performer but the price differential is absurd.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
© Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group