On verge of buying, but have reservations!!

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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Cymrusue

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
7
Ive been reading this forum intently over the last few days as I'm waiting for my 16 plate gx4h to be delivered to my local car supermarket. However, I'm worried that I'm making a mistake in getting a push and it's not going to be as economical as I'm expecting.

I have a 17 mile each way commute to work. Going to work is all downhill, some very steep, but then coming back up is bad. I can charge overnight from a 3 pin plug at home, but I can't charge at work at the moment. I often have to go out again to pick up kids from clubs but that's usually about 2 hours after I get home and charge.

I also then have a 99 mile trip on the weekends to our caravan but once there was can charge from the van.

I'm a little heavy footed, having a BMW 1 series sport currently but this is too small and I need a much bigger car.

I'm also worried about people saying about the MMCS and how complicated and annoying it is. All this is putting me off tbh!

Do you think I will save buying this car, obviously providing I drive it carefully!!

Can I charge the battery enough going downhill to have enough power to get home up the steep hills?

Thanks.
 
On the last point - no, because once fully charged overnight, you have nowhere to put any "extra". If the journey really is downhill all the way then you might however be able to coast (and recover what you do use) to work and so still have a full battery for the return journey. Again, depending on the gradient. lifting 2 tonnes of car vertically uses a lot of energy - so I suspect you will not make it back even with a full battery but you should save money commuting and so pay for any additional spend on longer trips.
 
Going downhill with fully charged battery is not the ideal situation for optimize the battery usage

This PHEV has a EV range of ~25miles on a flat land ... so you may expect less for your 34miles commute .. that means you most probably will have 10 to 14miles uphill to make with the ICE

Still with PHEV you will consume less fuel then on a normal ICE car, but not be able to be in the ideal situation to commute in pure EV mode all the time.

If you are not looking for a SUV or a AWD car, the Ampera should be able to do the job in pure EV mode and always with a better fuel economy

If you want a AWD and/or a SUV ... I guess the outlander PHEV still is the one that will provide the best fuel economy for your usage

If you come from a heavy foot attitude, you will soon learn in the hard way how to calibrate you foot on the gas pedal ... still ... if you get a 2017 version with EV button, you can enjoy a bit the heavy foot and keep economy at decent level .. with the previous version as soon as you press only 50% the gas pedal the ICE will kick in, and waste all the "fuel efficiency" of the car
 
The Vauxhall Ampera is quite small internally. There are only two seats in the rear an their leg room is short. The boot is shallow and not very large. In my opinion the elasticated cover is inadequate as it does not fully cover the boot area so there is nowhere to hide anything out of site.
Drive wise I quite liked it. It was the first PHEV that I drove and got me thinking that a PHEV for me could work but I needed something bigger. At the time there was nothing else between the Ampera and the Outlander.
 
I have a 28 mile trip , 14 each way. I have one steep long drop towards the end and I get 2 miles out of which is used up on return. Half the jouney is motorway and I do 60-65 mph. Now in this situation I get 85% EV in winter and nearly 100 % in summer . You will do 6 miles more than me so may 75% EV. This will save money anyway. I have charging facility at work but I dont bother as petrol and charging work out the same at 15p I think. Long journeys after 100miles its not as economical as deisel. But over a month / year I think you will still save money.
 
If your primary reason to buy this car is to save on fuel costs, it is probably the wrong choice.
If you like having a car that can drive with zero emissions some or most of the time, go for it!
 
Thanks all for your replies so far. My primary reason in buying this car is that I love the idea of an electric 4x4 that has the potential to save me a lot of money. I live high up in the valleys and in winter it can get pretty hairy when it snows (although granted that's not that often but it does give me piece of mind). I need a bigger car than my 1 series, and I do want to do my bit for the environment-especially with the reputation of diesels going downhill fast! There may be opportunities to charge in work in the future which I'm hoping will then allow me to commute fully on electric, but that may be a year or so off. I can't afford to make a mistake buying this car, so appreciate all your comments. There is just such a range of opinions I'm really torn as to what to do! I've loved this car since it was first advertised, and even more with its facelift. Arggghhhh - decisions decisions! Never researched or dithered over a car purchase so much in my life!!!!
 
lots of previous posts emphasise that this is not a true 4X4, dont expect it to pull you out of a ditch. the big dissapointment for me is the lack of mileage on a full charge which since last September has never exceeded 20 miles and more often than not about 17 at tops. lots of small runs, school etc so it it is cheaper in that regard, recent run to Inverness from Edinburgh averaged 35 mpg so not so great.

i got it for the tax saving on a company car, so i am happy that overall it is saving me quite a bit - would i buy one if i was paying with my own money - no, the saving wouldnt compensate for what is an expensive car at £40k
 
Jimmac said:
lots of previous posts emphasise that this is not a true 4X4, dont expect it to pull you out of a ditch. the big dissapointment for me is the lack of mileage on a full charge which since last September has never exceeded 20 miles and more often than not about 17 at tops. lots of small runs, school etc so it it is cheaper in that regard, recent run to Inverness from Edinburgh averaged 35 mpg so not so great.

i got it for the tax saving on a company car, so i am happy that overall it is saving me quite a bit - would i buy one if i was paying with my own money - no, the saving wouldnt compensate for what is an expensive car at £40k

:?:

The outlander PHEV is a proper AWD and permanent 4x4

Only issue that I know is that supplied tyres may be not excellent in some conditions.

For handling the snow, and downhill ... having the 5 level control over regenerating brake , it does help a lot in the snow ... plus .. it is possibly the only 4x4 PHEV on the market (BMW 225xe is 2WD in ICE + 2WD in EV ... so only combining ICE+EV is a 4x4 ... other PHEV 4x4 maybe are from Volvo but they cost even more)

PS: About range and consumption ... I agree ... winter time and speed .. can downgrade a lot range and fuel efficiency ... the heavy foot driving style suffer less on a traditional ICE (ICE have higher efficiency at higher load)

PPS: In my case I only need 25km a day for my commute, and except when I press too much on the gas pedal, I'm driving in pure EV mode all the time ... and I pay less then 10cent EUR per kwh .. so my 25km daily commute cost me just 60/70cent .. vs 2/2.5 Euro .. still saving 1.5 or 2 euros a day (that is not even 750 euro a year) ... does not make much impact if there is a higher depreciation to be consider.
 
Agree fully with Elm70 about the performance of the car on ice and snow. As long as it has proper winter tyres. We should bear in mind, though, that it is not meant to be a full off-roader. It lacks locking diffs and ground clearance.
 
Thanks for the replies all. I guess it comes down to a bit of guesswork as to how much mpg I can get out of it. Going for a test drive on Thursday so will ask more about it then. I'm thinking I should get more than 50mpg on average out of it, which is a figure I've been quoted on an alternative car, BMW 2 series Grand Tourer.

Thinking that will get to work fully on electric it will need petrol engine on way back up. Current BMW does about 47mpg so need to get much more than that.
 
Unless you can buy it as a company car and take advantage of the tax concessions, you are not likely to save money with it - the PHEV is expensive for its specification and you should have no difficulty finding a comparable conventional petrol or diesel car for £10k less - that buys a whole lot of petrol. Even if your daily drive is entirely within the EV range, it would take several years to break even before you could begin to make savings.
 
Hi Cymrusue - It sounds like I have a similar commute to you. I'm 18 miles each way, downhill on the way to work and uphill on the way back. The main difference is that I can charge up at work too. I am going for weeks at a time without the engine ever firing up. The dashboard now tells me that the average MPG since I've had the car (covered 4060 miles so far) is 196mpg (my signature doesn't reflect that figure as fuelly doesn't know about the last 1000 miles I've driven yet). I would expect you to regularly get to work without using any petrol and have a couple of miles charge remaining. On the journey home, I'd guess that you'd get around 35mpg, giving you an average of 70mpg each day. Hope that helps set your mind at ease. Cheers!!
 
Fecn, how do you go for weeks without the ICE starting? I pre heat in the morning in balmy Bedfordshire, and when I start the car to drive off (about 5 mins after the cycle finishes) my engine starts immediately!

Could it be that I refuse to not have the heating on and leave it at 20 degrees, with the air con turned on? After all, it's a £35K car and I see no reason to not be as comfortable as I would be in a £10K one.

When I go to the office, the commute is 11 miles, half of it on a quiet, very hilly, national speed limit dual carriageway. I put cruise control on at a sat nav accurate 70 and the ICE runs the entire 6 miles but I will not consider slowing to 50 (or less) to prevent this.

I drove 1000 miles last week, (no charging once I left the office on Monday morning) taking me to 33K in just over 12 months, in serene comfort, never breaking the motorway speed limit, but making sure I was travelling at the limit whenever possible - at an average of 33mpg for the week and boy, did the ridiculously small tank give me fuel gauge anxiety!

But the comfort, quiet handling and view over the bonnet meant I enjoyed every minute of it!
 
Steel188 said:
Fecn, how do you go for weeks without the ICE starting? I pre heat in the morning in balmy Bedfordshire, and when I start the car to drive off (about 5 mins after the cycle finishes) my engine starts immediately!

Could it be that I refuse to not have the heating on and leave it at 20 degrees, with the air con turned on? After all, it's a £35K car and I see no reason to not be as comfortable as I would be in a £10K one.

When I go to the office, the commute is 11 miles, half of it on a quiet, very hilly, national speed limit dual carriageway. I put cruise control on at a sat nav accurate 70 and the ICE runs the entire 6 miles but I will not consider slowing to 50 (or less) to prevent this.

I drove 1000 miles last week, (no charging once I left the office on Monday morning) taking me to 33K in just over 12 months, in serene comfort, never breaking the motorway speed limit, but making sure I was travelling at the limit whenever possible - at an average of 33mpg for the week and boy, did the ridiculously small tank give me fuel gauge anxiety!

But the comfort, quiet handling and view over the bonnet meant I enjoyed every minute of it!

I pre-heat for 20 mins before I leave for work and set off after it's been running for 18-19 mins (specifically, my pre-heat starts at 7:50 and I usually leave at 8:08). I found that 10 mins of pre-heating is enough to warm up the air in the cabin, but the plastics/seats are still cold, so the car cools off quickly, and the the ice starts up, so I've gone with 20 mins ever since. I have the heater set at 21C with aircon on, but in all honesty, the car stays warm enough on my 30 min commute that I could do without the heater at all... it doesn't cool down that quickly once the seats/plastics are warmed up. I'm lucky enough to have free charging at work too, so I also do 20 mins pre-heating on the way home (from 16:40 to 17:00). The only time the ICE starts up for me is if I put my foot down too quickly when I pull onto the motorway (the slip road is up a big steep hill), but I've learned to just 'follow a lorry' until I reach the top of the hill and then it's all happy.

Cheers!!
 
I'm just trading in my pre-facelift 64 plate 4xh, having done 25,000 miles in 15 months. My overall fuel consumption is a gnats whisker under 50mpg, but I do two 100 mile runs each week (with a full charge to start, but 80% ICE) and then local commuting in the week which is mostly electric, but has a little ICE at the start of each day and usually a little at the end when the charge has run out. The OP should have no problem achieving 50+mpg on the commute he describes.

NB, I'm trading in for a post-facelift 65 plate 4xh so that I don't rack up any more miles on a relatively new car. It also means that I benefit from the 5 year warranty and all the new gadgets :)
 
Thanks for your comments everyone. I am going for a test drive tomorrow to make a decision. Testing both the PHEV and a 2 series GT as a backup. So hoping that I will make the right decision!!
 
One comment ..

MPG is not the only parameter

If every day the PHEV get 9kwh charge (9kwh is what is needed for fully charge the battery from almost "zero EV range") ... this does cost normally circa like 1 litre of fuel .. if you take this cost out of the equation the result could be misleading ... unless people can charge the PHEV free of charge

PS: People like me that charge every night the PHEV, do see the increase of the electricity bill ... but in my case I don't have to visit the tank station anymore (almost) .
When the PHEV is running in pure EV mode, I calculated based on my electricity cost that I'm spending 4 times less then my previous diesel SUV ... but ...once I get the ICE of the PHEV to run ... my old diesel SUV was more economical ... let say that the first 40km in EV range is 1/4 of the price .. the next 40km will cost me ~50% more (petrol is 25% more expensive then diesel, and diesel is ~25% more efficient too)

So the table for me is as following
Code:
KM - PHEV cost - Diesel cost
 40 - 0.25 - 1.00
 60 - 1.00 - 1.50
 80 - 1.75 - 2.00
100 - 2.50 - 2.50
120 - 3.25 - 3.00

So .... more or less .. for people that drive more then 100km without additional charging .. the Diesel is more economical.
As well .. once the ICE kick in ... the gain in "saving" is getting marginal .. up to 40km the margin is 400% cheaper .. already at 60km mark ... is only 50% cheaper
 
elm70 said:
One comment ..

MPG is not the only parameter

If every day the PHEV get 9kwh charge (9kwh is what is needed for fully charge the battery from almost "zero EV range") ... this does cost normally circa like 1 litre of fuel .. if you take this cost out of the equation the result could be misleading ... unless people can charge the PHEV free of charge

PS: People like me that charge every night the PHEV, do see the increase of the electricity bill ... but in my case I don't have to visit the tank station anymore (almost) .
When the PHEV is running in pure EV mode, I calculated based on my electricity cost that I'm spending 4 times less then my previous diesel SUV ... but ...once I get the ICE of the PHEV to run ... my old diesel SUV was more economical ... let say that the first 40km in EV range is 1/4 of the price .. the next 40km will cost me ~50% more (petrol is 50% more expensive then diesel, and diesel is ~25% more efficient too)

So the table for me is as following
Code:
KM - PHEV cost - Diesel cost
 40 - 0.25 - 1.00
 60 - 1.00 - 1.50
 80 - 1.75 - 2.00
100 - 2.50 - 2.50
120 - 3.25 - 3.00

So .... more or less .. for people that drive more then 100km without additional charging .. the Diesel is more economical.
As well .. once the ICE kick in ... the gain in "saving" is getting marginal .. up to 40km the margin is 400% cheaper .. already at 60km mark ... is only 50% cheaper
You quote that petrol is 50% more expensive than diesel where you live, here in the UK diesel is more expensive than petrol, which will obviously make any running costs area specific.
What is the price difference between petrol and diesel in other parts of the world?

I live in Wales and sometimes do 500 miles (plenty of steep hills) with just a charge at the start and I am returning the same sort of mpg that I did in my previous diesel SUV, so considering that diesel is more expensive I would say that I am slightly better off on the long journeys (certainly arriving more relaxed after driving the Outlander) and much better off when driving shorter mainly EV journeys daily.

I didn't really buy the Outlander for its green credentials, it just ticked all of my boxes for a family car and I haven't been disappointed so far, but it is a nice feeling that when I start the car I don't get that dirty black cloud from the exhaust! and I don't have to let the engine idle for a few minutes before switching the engine off to ensure that the turbo gets oil.
 
Just notice a typo .. Diesel price is 25% cheaper, and this add to 25% more efficiency .. so total is around 50% difference

I did not know that Diesel is more expensive then Petrol in UK

I know for sure that in Poland, Austria, Germany, Italy ... Diesel is cheaper then Petrol .. delta price is 25% in poland (4pln vs 5pln) .. possibly Austria, Germany and Italy have a difference %

Also electricity price are different country by country ... here in Poland Diesel is less then 1 EUR per litre .. and Petrol is just above 1 EUR per litre ... and 1kwh is 0.08 EUR. (I guess very few people in Europe pay so "little" for electricity .. but as well fuel is cheaper here then most of other EU countries)

Anyhow ... even not comparing to Diesel ... the Outlander PHEV when running in ICE mode does consume more, since there is an extra drag from the eMotors , and when run in serial mode, there is a waste of energy between producing electricity from ICE (instead of use ICE for power the wheels) ... still this is partial offset by regenerate braking (partial or massive, is a question of where the car is used, on the motorway there is almost no advantage on having regenerate braking, while in the city trffic it make a huge difference) and in theory by extra ICE efficiency due to increase load for charge the battery in additional to move the car

Anyhow ... all I know is that my PHEV does consume 10L every 100km at constant motorway speed (which is 140km.h here) .. for instance my previous BMW 320D at same speed was using 5L every 100km ... also in the city when battery is over, consumption on my PHEV is never below 7L/100km
 
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