Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:03 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
gwatpe wrote:
anko wrote:
For those very short drives, I believe you mentioned 11m distance, surely a precaution of leaving the foot OFF the brake and powering up the PHEV to allow the climate system to be turned OFF and then applying the foot to the brake and pressing the power button again to power ON normally is something that can be done in a hurry.
I didn't mean: "not enough time because you ar win a hurry", but "may forget because you are in a hurry".

gwatpe wrote:
I had the same issues with running out of reserve battery power when I had forgotten to press the SAVE button.
Exactly. You simply forget sometimes. ;-)

gwatpe wrote:
I had the same issues with running out of reserve battery power when I had forgotten to press the SAVE button. I now have a mod that remembers my preferred setting. I don't think that considering the way the PHEV powers up, that it would be any value to try and turn OFF the climate system when it is really cold with an external mod on power ON. MMC would need to get the team together and make changes to firmware for many interacting systems that may be considered to have little benefit to most drivers.
I wonder why you think it would be considered having little benefit to most drivers. Maybe in sunny Australia it would. But ask people in Scandinavia and the northern half of Europe. There have been many many posts from people that would value an EV Only button. Both on this and the Dutch forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
This morning we had approx -6 deg C. This was the first time with these temperatures since I have been able to monitor both the coolant temp and the electric heater fluid temp (which in principle is the same fluid). At some point, the coolant was approx. 80 deg C and the heater fluid temp was approx. 70 deg C. And when I would set the A/C to 20 deg C, it would still fire up the engine. I assume because the interior temperature was approx. 13 deg C. But the strange bit is this: while the engine fired up, the heater itself stayed off. So, it looks as if the heating fluid was considered hot enough?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
Posts: 1102
Location: South Australia
I was trying to imagine myself in the Japanese design team.

_________________
8kW Solar Self Use, 16kWh 24V LYP battery, 3.3kW Battery Inverter
PHEV Solar Recharging Station
1.7kW Solar Grid connect

Make the GRID your friend.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 7
@greendwarf Sorry, but I disagree with what you wrote:

"The answer Mitsu gave you was perfectly reasonable - what they are saying is that if the driver wants to freeze along with any passengers then they have to take active steps to do that. Mitsu designs a car for the majority of anticipated customers who they, no doubt correctly, assume want to be warm in winter."

If they designed the system correctly I could choose to drive 15 km EV only WITH heating on (since there indeed is enough electricity for that) and thus not freeze... this is a design flaw, in particular when considering the environmental aspects of buying a PHEV.

If I drive 20 km every day in a cold country this is the difference between 7 litres/100 km 6 months of the year (so let's say 7 litres a week, approx 150 litres of gas, versus... 0! Of course Mitsu thinks of the average driver but 1 - this PHEV can drive 40 km on electricity so I guess a lot of buyers drive in cities, 2 - thinking of the average user doesn't mean stupid choices for other users become clever :)

You know what, I am thinking of buying a 20 $ electric heater to plug into my 12 v outlet, that would actually solve the problem! And the funny thing is that it would be the solution Mitsu should implement, but more elegant of course, meaning they should use the battery they have and the heating system they already have! It really feels wrong to do that in a new (not that cheap) car I bought in 2016.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1353
gwatpe wrote:
or an unwillingness of MMC to make changes that give drivers some more useful user options.


See my comment about Japanese mind set above. For example, they always supply slippers to use in toilets in the home. These are of the "one size fits no one" variety. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Dee Why
iggys76 wrote:
@greendwarf Sorry, but I disagree with what you wrote:

"The answer Mitsu gave you was perfectly reasonable - what they are saying is that if the driver wants to freeze along with any passengers then they have to take active steps to do that. Mitsu designs a car for the majority of anticipated customers who they, no doubt correctly, assume want to be warm in winter."

If they designed the system correctly I could choose to drive 15 km EV only WITH heating on (since there indeed is enough electricity for that) and thus not freeze... this is a design flaw, in particular when considering the environmental aspects of buying a PHEV.

If I drive 20 km every day in a cold country this is the difference between 7 litres/100 km 6 months of the year (so let's say 7 litres a week, approx 150 litres of gas, versus... 0! Of course Mitsu thinks of the average driver but 1 - this PHEV can drive 40 km on electricity so I guess a lot of buyers drive in cities, 2 - thinking of the average user doesn't mean stupid choices for other users become clever :)

You know what, I am thinking of buying a 20 $ electric heater to plug into my 12 v outlet, that would actually solve the problem! And the funny thing is that it would be the solution Mitsu should implement, but more elegant of course, meaning they should use the battery they have and the heating system they already have! It really feels wrong to do that in a new (not that cheap) car I bought in 2016.


Getting useful heating out of the 12V system? Good luck with that!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1353
anko wrote:
.
I would think / hope that EV range is how far you can get on what is in your battery without intermediate taking into account recharges. So, even if the battery was recharged when the engine was started for heating purposes, I would be surprised if that would impact EV range upfront. An increase of EV range would, IMHO, mean that during the last trips you used less Wh per mile. Which could well be the case as your latest trips were at relatively low speeds.[/quote]

Afraid not, all my recent trips (for months) have been similar urban journeys. My point was this happened when the external temp had dropped to 3c - when we are told that battery capacity and estimated range is reduced. In fact, the reverse was true - so, as we also know the calculated range takes in the most recent pattern of usage, the only explanation must be the period of enforced use of the ICE during heating also generated "surplus" energy.

In fact, as I had also been using the blower & heated rear screen during the heating phase the predicted range would have been lowered by this factor, suggesting the calculated figure could have been higher that I get in summer. :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
greendwarf wrote:
Afraid not, all my recent trips (for months) have been similar urban journeys. My point was this happened when the external temp had dropped to 3c - when we are told that battery capacity and estimated range is reduced. In fact, the reverse was true - so, as we also know the calculated range takes in the most recent pattern of usage, the only explanation must be the period of enforced use of the ICE during heating also generated "surplus" energy.
Yesterday evening, I did a 135 km trip home. Almost 40% of it was in EV mode, roughly half of it it using generated power and not GRID power. If you are correct, I should have seen a much higher EV range this morning than I normally see. But I didn't.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1353
Just a thought - the GX3h does not have an electric heater, so must always start the Ice to provide heat. Do we know whether this is the base model or a "stripped down" version of the Gx4h, especially in Japan. If the Gx4h is essentially a Gx3h with added "whistles & bells" (we know a number of items, e.g. leather seats are added in UK) for export, it may not be technically (at a reasonable cost) be possible for Mitsu to re-design the heating system to not start the ICE - even if they recognise the issue. :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
greendwarf wrote:
Just a thought - the GX3h does not have an electric heater, so must always start the Ice to provide heat. Do we know whether this is the base model or a "stripped down" version of the Gx4h, especially in Japan. If the Gx4h is essentially a Gx3h with added "whistles & bells" (we know a number of items, e.g. leather seats are added in UK) for export, it may not be technically (at a reasonable cost) be possible for Mitsu to re-design the heating system to not start the ICE - even if they recognise the issue. :?:

At 10 deg C, the Gx4h will not start the engine when heat is requested. But the Gx3h will. If it is smart enough not to start the engine at 10 deg C, then how hard can it be to tell it not to start the engine at 5 deg C. Or even lower? Or make it dependent on an ECO switch or what not.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
© Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group