Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:35 am
Posts: 260
Location: Poole Dorset
Full charge last night. 29miles claimed, set off this morning the following was OFF.... 'Charge', 'Save'.'Air-con', all lights, heated seats etc etc
ON 'Eco', heater>windscreen.
ICE came on immediately . then went off for a short period, then on again, then off, but in 7 miles spent 90% of the time ON.
WHY did the ICE keep coming on. I had 5 leaves so was not driving like a lunatic. the only time I could make the ICE go off was on a trailing throttle. I tried regen from 0-5, made no difference, tried heater off & on (no air-con) no difference.
Any ideas??
Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
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Location: Netherlands
If the heater is on and the outside temperature outside under 10 degrees the ICE will come on to feed the heater initially. It will switch off after a few Km. Switching off the heater may work, but often one will need to set the interior temperature to minimum, switch off the heater and restart the car to supress the ICE completely. I don't bother, it is just a fraction of a litre of petrol and I dislike cold feet. Too lazy to switch on pre-heat too :) timer won't work, as I have variable times of departing in the morning.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:35 am
Posts: 260
Location: Poole Dorset
Thanks Jaap,
It was 7c here this morning so problem solved.
Many thanks.
Colin.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:34 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Devon UK
I noticed mine was starting the ICE somewhat unnecessarily too.

Now I just ignore the whole thing and JFDI!, I leave the heater set where I like it to be and even leave the aircon on at times just as I did with my old BMW diesel.
I do check that my wife hasn't left the heated seats on as the switches don't toggle on/off. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:35 am
Posts: 260
Location: Poole Dorset
I may well be contradicted as I am only a 'newby'.
But as far as I am aware, th only piece of electrical kit requiring the ICE to fire up or the EV milege to drop dramatically is the air con. Seats, lights, wipers heater blower all come from the 12v battery.
I have a voltmeter plugged into the ciggy lighter socket (Ebay) it registers 14.3v all the time until something else is turned on and one of the things that cause a voltage drop are the seats.
I would have thought they took more than the air con, so I can't understand why that has to come off the 300v battery.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:34 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Devon UK
Carnut wrote:
I may well be contradicted as I am only a 'newby'.
But as far as I am aware, th only piece of electrical kit requiring the ICE to fire up or the EV milege to drop dramatically is the air con. Seats, lights, wipers heater blower all come from the 12v battery.
I have a voltmeter plugged into the ciggy lighter socket (Ebay) it registers 14.3v all the time until something else is turned on and one of the things that cause a voltage drop are the seats.
I would have thought they took more than the air con, so I can't understand why that has to come off the 300v battery.


It's because 'fast charging' of the main battery (eg DC ChaDeMo/Ecotricity at UK service stations) could require the battery to be cooled. It uses the air con. :)

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1353
As repeated from last winter - if you set the temp to 15c then you can blast out cold air from the aircon and the ICE will not start even if the outside temp is below 10c. You will, of course, die from hyperthermia eventually. :o


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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
Posts: 1102
Location: South Australia
Tipper wrote:
Carnut wrote:
I may well be contradicted as I am only a 'newby'.
But as far as I am aware, th only piece of electrical kit requiring the ICE to fire up or the EV milege to drop dramatically is the air con. Seats, lights, wipers heater blower all come from the 12v battery.
I have a voltmeter plugged into the ciggy lighter socket (Ebay) it registers 14.3v all the time until something else is turned on and one of the things that cause a voltage drop are the seats.
I would have thought they took more than the air con, so I can't understand why that has to come off the 300v battery.


It's because 'fast charging' of the main battery (eg DC ChaDeMo/Ecotricity at UK service stations) could require the battery to be cooled. It uses the air con. :)

The battery has its own cooling system, "YES", but this is not the same system as the aircon.

The Aircon can draw multiple kW at times, and this would place a high demand on a 12V battery, with associated demands on any recharging systems. Eliminate this by powering directly from the traction battery. PHEV should be powered ON, with READY light, so at least the fan draw is topped up with the DC-DC converter. Same goes when powering any high demand electrical appliance from the 12V system.

There is a little pump above the wheel well on the RHS of the vehicle for RHD PHEV, that I believe is the battery cooling system pump. The plumbing has metal pipes as well.

There is another system, with Blue coolant in my PHEV, with own semi transparent tank, that is part of the electrical cooling for Generator and EV motors. mainly larger dia, low pressure rubber piping systems.

The aircon has 2 zones in the passenger compartment, and there are 2 return pipes from the evaporator, and only the 1 condenser. In operation, the condenser pipe, has a blue service valve cap marked "H" will be warm to hot. The liquid line, thinner pipe with blue service valve cape marked "L". The Evaporator return pipe, bigger aluminium, has a join behind the ICE, will be cooler. This pipe has insulation on it inside the cabin and behind the heat shielding in the engine bay.

Access to a good exploded view of the PHEV showing individual systems would eliminate a lot of the speculation.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:17 am
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland
Carnut wrote:
I would have thought they took more than the air con, so I can't understand why that has to come off the 300v battery.

Oh no...
The aircon (only cooling/drying, without heating) uses ~1800 Watts (out of the drive battery)
The heated seat only takes ~100-150 Watts out of the 12V aux battery.

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 Post subject: Re: ICE running unnecessarily?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 7
Brand new (3 days) Outlander PHEV Business Nav, had the same issue the first 2 days, googled and the solution for me is to set the inside temp to 15 degrees (no AC). The ICE does not start and we currently have -20. Sometimes it starts for a very very short period below -15 but it turns off immediately.

With temp set to 20 degrees (as indicated by Mitsubishi in order to minimize ICE) the ICE runs almost continuously, at 15 degrees (inside temp, -15 outside) almost never, but if I increase by 1 degree the inside temp to 16 it's a huge difference. It seems that the colder it is outside the colder you have to have inside the car to prevent the ICE from starting. At -10 I could have 17 degrees inside without the ICE starting, but at -20 I need to go below 15 inside. Need to mention that if you set 15 inside the car it blows mostly cold air so I am not sure whether 15 means that the heating is off completely...

But my questions really is, why does the ICE also power the car once it's on to heat the car, if it only would run at minimum rpm to heat the car to let's say 20 degrees it wouldn't consume that much petrol, but once it's on it starts to power the car as well, which is absurd as the first day I drove 40 km and because I had 22 degrees inside (-10 outside) the car the ICE was on all the time and EV was down to 40% an I consumed 6 litres/100 km, like my old car more or less. When I got home I still had plenty of battery. This is indeed a bug in the program/design since if I set the inside temp to 15 the ICE does (almost) never start at -20 outside.

If Mitsubishi considered the ICE to be more efficient at heating the car (like I have read in some forums) then it should only do that unless told (by me) to power the car as well, that would enable me to drive the car only with battery until it's empty and only having the ICE heating the car with minimum petrol consumption, and not sending additional power to the battery/wheels.

I drive mostly 50 km a day in a cold country and it seems crazy to have an EV that consumes 50% petrol when I have plenty of battery since there is no good reason for it and I can force it to only run on battery but then I have to freeze!

I'll contact Mitsubishi right away, this is too bad for the environment, which is the reason why I bough a PHEV in the first place.

Iggy


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