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 Post subject: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:51 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Hi everyone, I'm a newbie on this forum having just bought a 64 plate Phev, with only 1400 miles on the clock, from our local dealer.
Unfortunately since we took possession of it, it has been back to the dealer twice and about to go in for a third time!
In just 6 weeks we have experienced the following faults and are wondering if anyone else has had any similar issues?

Warning lights appearing for no apparent reason - on investigation one of the fault codes turned out to be a problem with the catalytic converter, which was changed under warranty, but on a 12 month old car with 1400 miles, seriously?!
Maximum charge range following overnight charges of 17 miles.
Car failing to engage fwd or reverse properly, requiring car to be switched off then on again.
Not engaging Save Mode until about a mile after being selected, now not working at all.
Parking lines occasionally not displaying on rear camera.
Petrol engine cutting in by itself when the car is either stationary or travelling with little or no load on the electric motor.
Heated seat taking 10 minutes to switch itself on.
Seat belt sensor working occasionally when child's car seat on passenger seat - only just started happening.

Right now we are just waiting for something else to go wrong, personally I think there is something seriosly amiss with the computer or its software. Any ideas?

Thanks, Gavin.


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
Posts: 1102
Location: South Australia
If this was in AUS, I might suspect this was my first PHEV. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:05 am
Posts: 82
Mini wrote:
Hi everyone, I'm a newbie on this forum having just bought a 64 plate Phev, with only 1400 miles on the clock, from our local dealer.
Unfortunately since we took possession of it, it has been back to the dealer twice and about to go in for a third time!
In just 6 weeks we have experienced the following faults and are wondering if anyone else has had any similar issues?

Warning lights appearing for no apparent reason - on investigation one of the fault codes turned out to be a problem with the catalytic converter, which was changed under warranty, but on a 12 month old car with 1400 miles, seriously?!
Maximum charge range following overnight charges of 17 miles.
Car failing to engage fwd or reverse properly, requiring car to be switched off then on again.
Not engaging Save Mode until about a mile after being selected, now not working at all.
Parking lines occasionally not displaying on rear camera.
Petrol engine cutting in by itself when the car is either stationary or travelling with little or no load on the electric motor.
Heated seat taking 10 minutes to switch itself on.
Seat belt sensor working occasionally when child's car seat on passenger seat - only just started happening.

Right now we are just waiting for something else to go wrong, personally I think there is something seriosly amiss with the computer or its software. Any ideas?

Thanks, Gavin.


From what you describe, it could be a misunderstand of how most things work:

Maximum charge range following overnight charges of 17 miles. <- Range depends on driver ability and use of accessories. I get about 45km on a full charge. My wife gets about 35km. If we turned on the heater or air conditioner, it'd drop even further.

Car failing to engage fwd or reverse properly, requiring car to be switched off then on again. <- This can happen when your foot is not firmly on the brake when you hit the power button.

Not engaging Save Mode until about a mile after being selected, now not working at all. <- How can you tell if it engages save mode or not? Even in save mode, it's programmed to keep the battery power NEAR the save point, not exactly on it. So unless you're hitting save when you're full, and it's going down past half, how do you know it's not working?

Parking lines occasionally not displaying on rear camera. <- Parking lines don't show until the computer has finished booting. So if you reverse in the first minute of turning the car on, you're on your own.

Petrol engine cutting in by itself when the car is either stationary or travelling with little or no load on the electric motor. <- There are electric devices other than the motor. E.g Totally normal if you have air conditioning (hot or cold), headlights, seat warmers, or other high drain 12v devices turned on.

Anyway, my point is, almost everything you've described there seems to have a reasonable explanation pending further details from you. You could reply and prove me "wrong" and saying the explanations are definitely not right, but with the level of detail you've provided, it seems like a mismatch in expectation, not a fault in your car.


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:51 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Thanks forr your reply Sunder.
We too are aware that things could be explained by not understanding how the car works and have been very careful to bear this in mind. The thing is, that these issues have only just started manifesting themselves and even the dealer agrees that they shouldn't be happening.

As far as things like the EV range is concerned, that is what is displayed on the dash following a full charge not what we ae actually achieving.
The engagement of fwd and reverse is with the foot firmly on the pedal.
I forgot to mention that when the car is turned on in the morning following a full charge, the petrol engine starts first before the car even moves or anything is selected.

I could go on but I think you probably get my drift. I have a lot of mechanical sympathy, being a classic car owner who does his own maintenance, so the actual operation of the car was one of the first ghings I checked out.
When we collected the car we were surprised at how few miles it had accrued and we now strongly suspect that the previous owner had similar issues and returned it.

I posted this hallf in the hope that someone might recognise these symptoms and say, that sounds just like thd car they returned!


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2593
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Mini wrote:
I forgot to mention that when the car is turned on in the morning following a full charge, the petrol engine starts first before the car even moves or anything is selected.
Is this after turning off the heater at the end of the last trip, the day before?

If you don't turn off the heater the engine will start on power up the next morning, unless it is not too cold or unless you properly preheat the car before powering up (in case you have an electric heater).


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1352
[quote="Mini"]As far as things like the EV range is concerned, that is what is displayed on the dash following a full charge not what we ae actually achieving.
quote]

This still seems to show a misunderstanding of the car. The 17 miles is only the predicted range and clearly the other issues you describe would contribute to this reduced figure, whether they are faults or not. So what is the actual EV range you are getting? - that is what is important. If over 20 in winter, why worry?


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:46 am
Posts: 2789
greendwarf wrote:

...

This still seems to show a misunderstanding of the car. The 17 miles is only the predicted range and clearly the other issues you describe would contribute to this reduced figure, whether they are faults or not. So what is the actual EV range you are getting? - that is what is important. If over 20 in winter, why worry?


Agreed. Obviously the catalytic converter should not have failed so soon, but many of the other issues the OP describes could be down to misoperation or misunderstanding. We really need more information to decide if the car has more fundamental issues. The OP does not say where he is - if he is in the colder parts of the UK, 17 miles EV range is quite possible at this time of year and the engine will run quite a lot of the time unless you take special action as has been discussed here many times.


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Dee Why
Mini wrote:
Car failing to engage fwd or reverse properly, requiring car to be switched off then on again.
Not engaging Save Mode until about a mile after being selected, now not working at all.
Parking lines occasionally not displaying on rear camera.
Petrol engine cutting in by itself when the car is either stationary or travelling with little or no load on the electric motor.
Heated seat taking 10 minutes to switch itself on.
Seat belt sensor working occasionally when child's car seat on passenger seat - only just started happening.

Right now we are just waiting for something else to go wrong, personally I think there is something seriosly amiss with the computer or its software. Any ideas?

Thanks, Gavin.


You say you have your foot on the pedal... but.. did you when you started the car or when you switched from accessory mode. If you didn't, that is exactly what happens. Do you really put a child seat on the passenger seat? That is a big no in many cars as kids have been killed by airbags in the passenger seat. My reversing camera does the same, as Anko said, it takes a while for the computer to boot... don't know about the heater.. we certainly don't need that here at the moment.
Do you select save mode when the battery is full? If so, it will not engage right away.
It may be a good idea if you could persuade your dealer to lend you another car for a day, and see if you have the same issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:46 am
Posts: 2789
Can we clarify this suggestion that it is taking time for Save mode to engage? Are you saying that there is a delay before the display on the dashboard says "Save"? That would certainly be anomalous - but as others have said, Save mode does not try to keep the charge level absolutely fixed, it does permit some variation and will allow a fully charged battery to drift down by a bar or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Have we bought a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 2593
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
HHL wrote:
My reversing camera does the same, as Anko said, it takes a while for the computer to boot...
I was about to right something about this, but Sunder beat me to the punchline .... ;)


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