LPG tank in 1 year old Outlander Phev - 60,000 miles clocked

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denmans64

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
2
We fitted an LPG tank to our Outlander Phev and were told that by so doing we had invalidated the guarantee. However, MPG is now much improved.e is nowCar is a year old. The engine now is having problems getting started but we believe this is due to the engine's electrical generator failing and this has nothing to do with LPG.
Does anyone else have experience of LPG in the Phev. Answers would be much appreciated. Mitsubishi says we need to pay to have the engine dismantled, but I'm confident the engine is not the root of the problem!
 
I'm surprised that mpg is improved - I thought that LPG was a lower energy density fuel than petrol. I doubt you are going to get much relevant input here - I don't think anyone else here has converted.

If the generator is failing, I doubt that you would ever get started - it is effectively the starter motor. I assume that it does not have to work particularly hard to start the car since the engine will be decompressed during startup and spun up to quite a high speed before compression is applied.
 
LPG cars do have starting problems from time to time - I had no end of trouble with those installations in the past, even with a factory-fitted one by Volvo. The impossible-to-find hiccups finally caused it be scrapped before its time, fortunately after I traded it in...

Not surprised that Mitsubishi invalidated the guaranty. The higher combustion heat may well have burnt the valves in, especially as the engine is not built for high-temperature fuels.
Don't use fuel containing more than 10% of (Bio)-Ethanol either!!
 
maby said:
If the generator is failing, I doubt that you would ever get started - it is effectively the starter motor. I assume that it does not have to work particularly hard to start the car since the engine will be decompressed during startup and spun up to quite a high speed before compression is applied.

How do you work that out?
There is no way to do this.
 
HHL said:
maby said:
If the generator is failing, I doubt that you would ever get started - it is effectively the starter motor. I assume that it does not have to work particularly hard to start the car since the engine will be decompressed during startup and spun up to quite a high speed before compression is applied.

How do you work that out?
There is no way to do this.

Well, it is certainly the way the Prius works and I strongly believe the PHEV is the same. Why is it so difficult?
 
maby said:
HHL said:
maby said:
If the generator is failing, I doubt that you would ever get started - it is effectively the starter motor. I assume that it does not have to work particularly hard to start the car since the engine will be decompressed during startup and spun up to quite a high speed before compression is applied.

How do you work that out?
There is no way to do this.

Well, it is certainly the way the Prius works and I strongly believe the PHEV is the same. Why is it so difficult?

Because there is no facility on the 4B11 engine to do it.
 
HHL said:
Because there is no facility on the 4B11 engine to do it.

Does it not do the same as the Prius - exploit the variable valve timing to reduce the compression to zero - or close enough to make the start smooth?
 
maby said:
HHL said:
Because there is no facility on the 4B11 engine to do it.

Does it not do the same as the Prius - exploit the variable valve timing to reduce the compression to zero - or close enough to make the start smooth?

I don't believe so, there is no mention of this in the technical documentation. Besides, that version of the 4B11 engine does not have variable timing on the exhaust valves, only the intake.
 
I added LPG to the 'fuel' options (electricity, petrol, lpg) as I was cutting across Europe several times a month (4000 km in 3/4 days)the vehicle was not performing at all as promised and fuel was costing an astronomical amount! Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
Regarding the engine not starting up, it does start up, after several attempts but the battery power is running out faster and faster with each day that passes. There is definitely something wrong with the generator. Mitusubishi's mechanic's say there is a code fault in the engine, but I know this is not true, as I have have it checked out by several other reliable mechanics who tell me this is not so. It is a never ending story....and has turned my life upside down. I am now getting rid of the hot potato! A real shame as my life savings went into it and it is only a year old. :eek:
 
This Hybrid uses LPG in Atkinson Cycle Engine.

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/news/hyundai-elantra-sets-new-low-for-fuel-costs/

The unique feature is that this hybrid combines its 15 kW electric motor with an aluminium 1.6-litre Atkinson Cycle four-cylinder engine designed to run on LPG, which burns more cleanly than petrol or diesel.
 
denmans64 said:
Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
:eek:

Did you really think you were going to get the promotional economy all the time :eek:
It is well known that the quoted economy take into account the EV range & with a max EV range of only 50km it is pretty obvious that the figure work out better on shorter journeys. A small amount of internet searching would have shown you what to realistically expect. :?
 
denmans64 said:
I added LPG to the 'fuel' options (electricity, petrol, lpg) as I was cutting across Europe several times a month (4000 km in 3/4 days)the vehicle was not performing at all as promised and fuel was costing an astronomical amount! Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
Regarding the engine not starting up, it does start up, after several attempts but the battery power is running out faster and faster with each day that passes. There is definitely something wrong with the generator. Mitusubishi's mechanic's say there is a code fault in the engine, but I know this is not true, as I have have it checked out by several other reliable mechanics who tell me this is not so. It is a never ending story....and has turned my life upside down. I am now getting rid of the hot potato! A real shame as my life savings went into it and it is only a year old. :eek:
What did you expect from a petrol hybrid, 1800 Kg, large frontal area and below-average CX value? Actually the car does pretty well at an average of 11Km/l on long distances. If you want to do better, you need a low-profile turbo-Diesel Autobahn cruiser. Even a Prius or Ampera would be more suitable for predominantly long continental journeys. Not that the Mitsu disappoints. I personally like the smooth quiet cruising at 140, happy to run 1300 km to Italy Monday.
Do your reliable mechanics have the programs on their computer to read out the data from your car? Diagnostics nowadays are quite specialized.
 
denmans64 said:
I added LPG to the 'fuel' options (electricity, petrol, lpg) as I was cutting across Europe several times a month (4000 km in 3/4 days)the vehicle was not performing at all as promised and fuel was costing an astronomical amount! Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
Regarding the engine not starting up, it does start up, after several attempts but the battery power is running out faster and faster with each day that passes. There is definitely something wrong with the generator. Mitusubishi's mechanic's say there is a code fault in the engine, but I know this is not true, as I have have it checked out by several other reliable mechanics who tell me this is not so. It is a never ending story....and has turned my life upside down. I am now getting rid of the hot potato! A real shame as my life savings went into it and it is only a year old. :eek:

I have to say that LPG conversion is not a typical mod that any PHEV owner would probably consider under warranty, it would be interesting to hear your before, and after conversion figures though. :idea:
 
I had a Nissan MAXIMA 3.0LV6 that I installed LPG into. Was a great mod, even with the loss of boot space. got 280,000km with no engine work, but normal sheduled servicing before I traded it in for the PHEV. Gas supplied lower power than petrol, and towing ability was affected. Economy on gas was about 15% lower per litre than petrol, but LPG was about half the price of unleaded, so economics were good.

It is possible that the PHEV computer would be able to adjust the fuel rates for gas, but generator ECU may then be operated in a non optimum way. Clearly stated in the manual about LPG conversion affecting warranties. Will be an expensive decision if only option is an engine, generator replacement/refurbish and removal of gas conversion.
 
In the Netherlands there are a number of PHEVs running on LPG. But the supplier of the LPG unit will provide the guaranty on the engine if the car maker does not.
 
denmans64 said:
I added LPG to the 'fuel' options (electricity, petrol, lpg) as I was cutting across Europe several times a month (4000 km in 3/4 days)the vehicle was not performing at all as promised and fuel was costing an astronomical amount! Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
Regarding the engine not starting up, it does start up, after several attempts but the battery power is running out faster and faster with each day that passes. There is definitely something wrong with the generator. Mitusubishi's mechanic's say there is a code fault in the engine, but I know this is not true, as I have have it checked out by several other reliable mechanics who tell me this is not so. It is a never ending story....and has turned my life upside down. I am now getting rid of the hot potato! A real shame as my life savings went into it and it is only a year old. :eek:

Assuming you are right, then why not pay out yourself for the generator replacement - presumably much cheaper than Mitsu's engine strip down option. At present it is basically worthless and useless. If this cures the problem than you could sue Mitsu for the costs.

Of course, if they are right and you wrong then you will have wasted even more money for nothing but this is a gamble only you can decide on. Not sure I would ever sink "my life's savings" into any car, given the rate of depreciation losses. :shock:
 
denmans64 said:
I added LPG to the 'fuel' options (electricity, petrol, lpg) as I was cutting across Europe several times a month (4000 km in 3/4 days)the vehicle was not performing at all as promised and fuel was costing an astronomical amount! Promotional material states it does 50/km per LT, but in reality it only does 12/14 Km per LT. I believed this would be a good car for distances but have been proven wrong. This is only a city car!
You have not informed yourself well or you have been misinformed. There are two numbers:
- the plugin hybrid fuel consumption, which you could hope to get when you plug in regularly (one fill up per 75 km)
- the non plugin hybrid consumption, which you get when you do not plug in regularly

The first is 52 km/l. The second (which applies to most long distance travel) is only one-third op that. And I guess that would be the best you would be 'entitled' to.

If 52 l/100 km had been the promoted range for long distances, then the promoted range on a fuel tank of petrol would have been at least 2250 km. But it is 800 or so.

Of course, the specific properties of the car pay off best when the cars is plugged in regularly (the double charge point could have been a hint), but IMHO it does not make the car unsuitable for long distances. You should be able to get at least same figures as you would get with a comparable non hybrid vehicle. And I personally get better figures.
 
anko said:
Of course, the specific properties of the car pay off best when the cars is plugged in regularly (the double charge point could have been a hint), but IMHO it does not make the car unsuitable for long distances. You should be able to get at least same figures as you would get with a comparable non hybrid vehicle. And I personally get better figures.

AUS shipped PHEV only comes with low power recharger, and we have no bigger petrol tank to compensate. Even lots of room for a bigger tank. Mitsi do not supply an option for a rapid charger socket or a bigger petrol tank.

Re LPG tank: I would find the placement of a decent sized tank a problem. No spare wheel well to hide a torroidal tank, and you would need at least 80L LPG to be worthwhile.
 
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