Charging dilemma

I charged my car for the first time today, it took 4h 15m and straight after the charge the range was 35 miles.
I used the car 4 hours later and the range started at 32 miles and on reaching my destination 9 miles away showed 22 miles.
On the return journey I used the save button a couple of times uphill and got home with 15 miles range showing.

My dilemma is that I have a 24 mile round trip tomorrow, do I recharge or run it down during that trip and charge again tomorrow night?

I have heard it's better not to keep topping up the battery?


Chris

Nobody has managed to kill a PHEV battery yet, so we are light on information as to how to maximise service life. Just do what feels comfortable to you - 24 miles round trip in the summer should be achievable on a single charge, so that would be my choice. Don't pay too much attention to the numbers on the guessometer - you may as well throw dice to determine how far you can go.

I would never use the save button to invoke the ICE if I know I can get to my next charge without having to use the ICE anyway.

Charging now will be absolutely fine to ensure your 24 mile trip is all (or at least almost all) on electric.

Hi Maby,Lance

Thanks for your advice, I am on a steep learning curve at the moment with this car.

I charged this morning and it took 2h 15m to complete.




Chris

Austen said:

I charged my car for the first time today, it took 4h 15m and straight after the charge the range was 35 miles.
I used the car 4 hours later and the range started at 32 miles and on reaching my destination 9 miles away showed 22 miles.
On the return journey I used the save button a couple of times uphill and got home with 15 miles range showing.

My dilemma is that I have a 24 mile round trip tomorrow, do I recharge or run it down during that trip and charge again tomorrow night?

I have heard it's better not to keep topping up the battery?


Chris

Click to expand...

This is not an electric car. It is a plug-in hybrid.
That means it is meant to be run on the battery when that is more efficient and on the ICE when needed. That, in its turn, means trying to run on electricity in (sub)urban traffic and/or when you know you can make it on the battery, and let it start up the ICE at higher speeds and at power bursts*. Nowadays charging it up during the journey at commercial points makes little (economic) sense.

*The Charge and Save buttons are there to let you optimise this behaviour, as the car is very good at playing the engine against the motors but cannot know the traffic conditions ahead.

Hi Jaapv

Thanks for your advice.

I am not sure that on a day to day basis I will achieve the higher speeds that would invoke the ICE.
I want to make the most economic use of the car but not compromise the drive system by partially charging. (if that's what can happen)
Maby and Lance have advised charging and in fact today I did my 28 mile round trip on battery and there was 3 miles range still showing. Coincidently when I left home this morning the initial range was 31 miles.
Tomorrow I anticipate do about 12 miles on 2 different trips, Tuesday probably a 26 mile trip so will charge before that again I expect.

Having previously driven a RAV4 Hybrid I am aware of some of the driving techniques required but the battery charging protocol is still something I need to get clear.


Chris

The only thing you have to worry about is not "topping up the battery"

Imagine this scenario, you're not going to use the car for a week, so every day you charge it from 99% to 100%.

That's topping up, and it will damage the battery.

You don't have to worry about anything else.

The battery has a greater capacity that what is displayed to us, the users.

This allows the car to manage the battery for us, and protects the battery from being overcharged or over discharged.

There isn't a set speed that will automatically start the ICE, it's all about power demand (and also the rate of change in power demand). It's certainly possible to get the PHEV up to 80 mph without triggering the ICE - but at that speed, the battery won't last for 26 miles!

Austen said:

Hi Jaapv

Thanks for your advice.

I am not sure that on a day to day basis I will achieve the higher speeds that would invoke the ICE.
I want to make the most economic use of the car but not compromise the drive system by partially charging. (if that's what can happen)
Maby and Lance have advised charging and in fact today I did my 28 mile round trip on battery and there was 3 miles range still showing. Coincidently when I left home this morning the initial range was 31 miles.
Tomorrow I anticipate do about 12 miles on 2 different trips, Tuesday probably a 26 mile trip so will charge before that again I expect.

Having previously driven a RAV4 Hybrid I am aware of some of the driving techniques required but the battery charging protocol is still something I need to get clear.


Chris

Click to expand...

Don't worry about part-charging, that is a strong point of Li-Ion batteries. Topping up is indeed harmful, so is depleting completely. The PHEV is well-protected against the latter, the former I am not so sure, but there will be some protection.

And don't trust the range displayed - on the forum that meter goes by the name of Guess-o-meter.

I regularly re-charge the battery from around 50% as my commute into Central London is just over 10 miles there and back. After 3 years of this, I was able to drive a 28 mile round trip on Friday and still have some battery left - 4 miles worth on guessometer.

ChrisMiller said:

There isn't a set speed that will automatically start the ICE, it's all about power demand (and also the rate of change in power demand). It's certainly possible to get the PHEV up to 80 mph without triggering the ICE - but at that speed, the battery won't last for 26 miles!

Click to expand...

Not sure

Keeping over 120km/h and it will cause to start the ICE even if EV range is over 10km .. if this speed is left for over 10seconds

Same I experienced with over 80 or 90km/h if the EV range is less then 5km .. ICE will start if this speed is kept for over 5 seconds or around

Can can do over 130km/h in EV mode .. but at some speed it does start ICE even if 60kw power is not exceed.

At least on my car firmware this is what I notice

If I take motorway and I want to be in EV mode, I set CC to just a bit less 120km/h for be sure to don't kick in ICE

Austen said:

Hi Jaapv

Thanks for your advice.

I am not sure that on a day to day basis I will achieve the higher speeds that would invoke the ICE.
I want to make the most economic use of the car but not compromise the drive system by partially charging. (if that's what can happen)
Maby and Lance have advised charging and in fact today I did my 28 mile round trip on battery and there was 3 miles range still showing. Coincidently when I left home this morning the initial range was 31 miles.
Tomorrow I anticipate do about 12 miles on 2 different trips, Tuesday probably a 26 mile trip so will charge before that again I expect.

Having previously driven a RAV4 Hybrid I am aware of some of the driving techniques required but the battery charging protocol is still something I need to get clear.


Chris

Click to expand...

Quite impressive "economical" driving style

I think my record in pure EV mode is just a bit over 46km (no heater nor AC) .. done just recently crossing small villages and countries road ... with time to spare ... with speed never above 85km/h .. and average speed around 60/65km/h

As well, the highest EV range I have seen has been 46km, with the exception of 52km range after I disconnect the 12v battery for reset the car (for avoid to be in force ICE mode due to "old" fuel)

elm70 said:

ChrisMiller said:

There isn't a set speed that will automatically start the ICE, it's all about power demand (and also the rate of change in power demand). It's certainly possible to get the PHEV up to 80 mph without triggering the ICE - but at that speed, the battery won't last for 26 miles!

Click to expand...

Not sure

Keeping over 120km/h and it will cause to start the ICE even if EV range is over 10km .. if this speed is left for over 10seconds

Same I experienced with over 80 or 90km/h if the EV range is less then 5km .. ICE will start if this speed is kept for over 5 seconds or around

Can can do over 130km/h in EV mode .. but at some speed it does start ICE even if 60kw power is not exceed.

At least on my car firmware this is what I notice

If I take motorway and I want to be in EV mode, I set CC to just a bit less 120km/h for be sure to don't kick in ICE

Click to expand...

Your car seems quite unique. My car will not fire up the ice at 120kph/75mph regardless of how long I sit there for. Mine only ever fires up the ice at dual carriageway speeds with 1 mile of EV range showing, and it happily cut the ice and use up the rest of the available battery if speed drops to 35mph/56kph or lower. I also had the same experience with the car I took for a 3 day test drive.

Is it ok to leave the 10amp control box switched on all the time?

I have been switching mine off when not in use but I fear that the little plastic latches on the IP66 box will break reducing it's weather proofess.



Chris

Austen said:

Is it ok to leave the 10amp control box switched on all the time?

I have been switching mine off when not in use but I fear that the little plastic latches on the IP66 box will break reducing it's weather proofess.



Chris

Click to expand...

Mine is on 50% of the time since 8 months (there is a timer in the middle) ... and no sign of any problem so far

I guess these boxes are designed for stay countless hours connected to the power line.

In the month before I had my proper charger installed, I just left it plugged in and switched on permanently and would have continued to do so.

I don't know what current these draw when plugged in and on and not charging the battery. Although you may only spend a little a year on electricity costs, it isn't considered "green" to leave "chargers" plugged in and not being used.

New phone chargers, for example, under current legislation, cannot draw more than 0.25w when connected but not charging - this amounts to a few pence a year in costs per charger.

One thought is that whilst the cost of leaving a charger plugged in while not in use may only result in a small cost and not present much of a fire risk due to manufacturers complying with strict international safety standards, the practice can reduce the product’s shelf life. (Assuming you didn't buy a cheap non-EU charger for 50p from eBay)

Some say the downside of leaving any product constantly plugged in is that as it warms up, heat is dissipated and that can lead to the deterioration of the electronic components over time. Others say the fact that you are not switching on / switching off helps prevent the units suffering from thermal and power shock from cycling.

In any event, we bought these cars to be a bit "greener" didn't we? :mrgreen:

jthspace said:

...

In any event, we bought these cars to be a bit "greener" didn't we? :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Nope ... I bought the PHEV since was economically valuable, a step up from previous car ... and also for the curiosity and the pleasure to drive in EV mode

My charging box does consume ~7kwh a day ... when it is in stand by, it does only need to power the internal controller .. so no more then 1w of power (possibly even less) .. so .. I'm wasting like 10wh a day .. that is around 0.1% of my car power consumption

I'm sure my timer switch does also consume some power .. and this is 24h a day ... possibly around 10wh a day of waste .. but this allow me to avoid to plug every midnight my car :shock:

I think wasting 10wh a day does not make us more or less "green" ... there is a waste on everything we do, and it must be accepted if the size is marginal.

Anyhow .. are anybody here plugging and unplugging the TV every time we watch a program, or we put the TV in stand by mode ?
For me, it is the same .. an unused charger box .. is like a TV in stand by .. with minimum consumption.

We should never forget that this "dummy charging box" , is just a controller that open or close the power line based on J1772 signalling.. nothing more then that .. the real charging is managed by the car charger, which convert 220v AC into a variable ~300v DC , or better a pure current generator (that should become a pure voltage generator once the battery is close to be fully charged)

elm70 said:

jthspace said:

...

In any event, we bought these cars to be a bit "greener" didn't we? :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Nope ... I bought the PHEV since was economically valuable, a step up from previous car ... and also for the curiosity and the pleasure to drive in EV mode
...

Click to expand...

Same here - we bought the car as a result of the tax concessions and because it has an electric transmission which should, in theory, be more reliable. Given that is has been shipped half way round the world on a big, dirty ship to get here and is then charged using electricity generated almost exclusively from burning things, its green credentials really are not particularly convincing.

elm70 said:

Anyhow .. are anybody here plugging and unplugging the TV every time we watch a program, or we put the TV in stand by mode ?

Click to expand...

Yep - me :mrgreen: