Chademo too often is bad - discuss...

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Hypermiler

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
562
Location
N Yorks, UK
Hi all
I really ought not to follow the phev Facebook group - they do my head in. Got myself into a “is a phev good as a 100 mile a night taxi” discussion. Someone using chademo charger 1 or 2 times a night which I didn’t think was advisable. Does anyone have any concrete reasons this is not good for the battery? Apologies if it is one of the members here. But forum members appear more knowledgeable in general.
Cheers
H
 
Hypermiler said:
Hi all
I really ought not to follow the phev Facebook group - they do my head in. Got myself into a “is a phev good as a 100 mile a night taxi” discussion. Someone using chademo charger 1 or 2 times a night which I didn’t think was advisable. Does anyone have any concrete reasons this is not good for the battery? Apologies if it is one of the members here. But forum members appear more knowledgeable in general.
Cheers
H
Hi Hypermiler,

Do not have chademo charger port on my PHEV but I think I have seen it in a manual somewhere that Mitsubishi do not recommend doing it regularly.

Definitely seen it on my battery reports from the dealer that it is probably being "counted" and can be seen by the MUT-III. Showing zero or nil (will find it later) on my PHEV .

Regards Trex.
 
Quick read through the charging section of the manual I only saw this

Repeatedly performing only quick charging may reduce the battery capacity.
In usual charge, normal charging is recommended.
l To maintain the capacity of the drive battery, the following is recommended:
• If you repeatedly perform only quick charging, fully charge the vehicle in normal charging mode every two weeks

They ask you fully charge normally every two weeks. I expect it's because the car will then balance the battery.

I wan't have a problem with Chademo as they are starting to charge here on February 1 and it will be more expensive
than using the Charge button in the car :)

Best regards
Hoski
 
I don’t really understand the point of Chademo on a PHEV. For a pure EV, sure, it may be important to get as much battery charge as quickly as possible so you can get to where you’re going. But with a PHEV, you can just run on gas if you run out of battery power. Add to that the fact that Mitsu says it’s not all that great for the battery and it makes even less sense to use. On top of that, Chademo chargers (here in the US at least) are ridiculously expensive per minute, and cost FAR more than gas to get you the same distance.

Unless you have a free Chademo charger handy, I can’t think of a reason to use one. Am I missing something?
 
generaltso said:
I don’t really understand the point of Chademo on a PHEV. For a pure EV, sure, it may be important to get as much battery charge as quickly as possible so you can get to where you’re going. But with a PHEV, you can just run on gas if you run out of battery power. Add to that the fact that Mitsu says it’s not all that great for the battery and it makes even less sense to use. On top of that, Chademo chargers (here in the US at least) are ridiculously expensive per minute, and cost FAR more than gas to get you the same distance.

Unless you have a free Chademo charger handy, I can’t think of a reason to use one. Am I missing something?
I enjoyed the last three years with an EV as my sole vehicle. I SO wish it had CHAdeMO capability. My goal for the Outlander is the same - use as little gasoline as possible. I'm glad the car has CHAdeMO capability because the main excuse given for our severe lack of DC quick charging in the US is 'there isn't enough demand'. I'm demanding. :lol:

I grabbed one quick charge on the way home from buying the car. It was at a Starbucks in Olathe, KS. It cost $1.00 on my Ch@rgepoint card. meh.

A constant diet of fast charging will slightly increase the aging of batteries. The battery will also age when we drive in the summer and winter, keep the battery charged to 100% (which we can't access), and parking the car in the garage and not using it. ;) Every mile driven on gas slowly erodes the fuel injectors and wears out the tires/tyres too. :cool:
 
AndyH said:
I grabbed one quick charge on the way home from buying the car. It was at a Starbucks in Olathe, KS. It cost $1.00 on my Ch@rgepoint card. meh.

I guess it’s highly dependent on the price of the Chademo charge. Did that $1.00 of electricity get you farther than $1.00 of gas would have?

The Chademo chargers near me are on the EVgo network and charge $5.95 PLUS $0.20 a minute. At those prices, an 80% charge would cost me about $10.95. A gallon of gas near me costs $2.49 and would get me farther.

I don’t think I will ever use public chargers that aren’t free because even the Level 2 chargers around here cost more than gas. That being said, I still plan to do most of my driving in EV mode between the free Chargepoint station at work and the Chargepoint Home station in my garage.
 
generaltso said:
AndyH said:
I grabbed one quick charge on the way home from buying the car. It was at a Starbucks in Olathe, KS. It cost $1.00 on my Ch@rgepoint card. meh.

I guess it’s highly dependent on the price of the Chademo charge. Did that $1.00 of electricity get you farther than $1.00 of gas would have?
Yes. That $1.00 resulted in emitting less fossil CO2. My economics are calibrated against a longer time horizon.
 
AndyH said:
Yes. That $1.00 resulted in emitting less fossil CO2. My economics are calibrated against a longer time horizon.

Understood, and I’m not knocking the environmental benefits of using less gas whenever possible. But I’m generally curious if Chademo in most places is fairly close to the price of gas. At $10.95 for 80% charge for me, it doesn’t make sense even with the environmental benefits taken into consideration, which is really unfortunate.
 
From the documents I've read, I think the jury is still out on the question of how much damage frequent ChaDeMo charging will do to the batteries. As we all know, Mitsubishi warn against it, but I have also read a detailed academic study that claimed there was no measurable impact. Personally, I tend to take the view that a ChaDemo charge will require me to stop for about half an hour, will cost me some money and will save me less than half a gallon of petrol - it really isn't worth the inconvenience and certainly not worth taking any chances with my expensive battery pack.
 
Mmm, thanks guys. There doesn’t seem to be any concrete evidence it is damaging. The verdict by everyone (except the taxi owner) is that it doesn’t make a good taxi. Think he’d do well to get much over 35mpg on that usage (if he doesn’t have time for extra charges) and imagine - you’d have to use the heating (shock horror). Taxis are always sweltering in my experience!
Cheers
H
 
I seem to remember a post here several years ago :lol: that there was a demand for PHEVs in Moscow for use as taxis - so we might have ours stolen to meet demand. I also understand the PHEV has a smaller turning circle than many similar sized cars but not as good as a "black cab" - and we now have the first of these as a PHEV here in London. :mrgreen:
 
generaltso said:
...But I’m generally curious if Chademo in most places is fairly close to the price of gas. At $10.95 for 80% charge for me, it doesn’t make sense even with the environmental benefits taken into consideration, which is really unfortunate.
$10.95 is obscene! :shock: Are all of them EVGo chárgers?
 
In my surrounding neighbourhood, most DC fast chargers are $10/hr to use. Quite expensive I say for the PHEV which can realistically only stay on it for ~30 minutes with ~30km gained vs. $1.25/L of regular unleaded. Low-cost/Free Level 2 opportunity charging & home charging (still on Level 1 at 12A :( ) is still very much the way to go.

Still having the Chademo DC socket to begin with (unlike most PHEV which don't) is still something I won't complain about, even if I seldom use it.

Still I find it oddly humorous that the 12kWh Outlander PHEV has a fan & A/C cooling circuit built into the battery pack, while the 40kWh Leaf BEV has neither. Because of that, I think Mitsubishi's recommendation of avoiding DC fast charing is more of a precaution of preserving battery longevity than an actual technical limitation.
 
Ok here in Scotland it's only £20 per year for an access card which gives free charging at hundreds of points. There are 2 rapid chargers within a couple of miles of my home and i was hoping to make use of these maybe a couple of times a week but also using my home charger in between times, would this be ok ?
 
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