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blweeden

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
7
I'm going to check one out at a dealer in the States on Saturday. I'm trying to figure a suitable replacement for our Subaru Outback. And let me tell you, there's lot of people out there that LOVE their Subarus, and I can largely see why. We could end up getting another one, but this vehicle looks pretty neat. One thing I can't tell from the forum though, is, does this vehicle inspire fans? Because I think that's a good sign for a car.

Brian
 
blweeden said:
I'm going to check one out at a dealer in the States on Saturday. I'm trying to figure a suitable replacement for our Subaru Outback. And let me tell you, there's lot of people out there that LOVE their Subarus, and I can largely see why. We could end up getting another one, but this vehicle looks pretty neat. One thing I can't tell from the forum though, is, does this vehicle inspire fans? Because I think that's a good sign for a car.

Brian

Hello Brian, to find how much people like a particular brand or model, usually the best gauge is repeat purchases aka purchase loyalty. This can be seen in various surveys, such as in the USA by Edmund's, which puts Mitsubishi near the bottom: https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/toyota-subaru-honda-score-highest-brand-loyalty-new-edmunds-report-reveals.html. Consumer Reports also has an "Owner Satisfaction" index (separate from Reliability), and Mitsubishi... is near the bottom again: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-brands-ranked-by-owner-satisfaction

On the bright side... well, there is no way to sugar coat this. Feel better about Mitsubishi? :lol:
 
Well that's interesting. And concerning!

I wonder what the reason for that is. It seems that the reliability of Mitsu products has been OK from some data I've seen, so ... curious.

I see you're a potential future owner, so maybe it hasn't warded you off entirely yet :).

Brian
 
The reason is simple - At introduction these cars were heavily subsidized in many markets - As governments have a habit of winding down subsidies, the car got effectively considerably more expensive over time - and plug-in hybrids are expensive in the first place, That is highly damaging to customer loyalty.
As for liking - I came from Jaguar to this car. Nothing could induce me to return to that brand. I'm driving this one until it falls apart. Judging by the way it keeps going until now it is likely that I will fall to pieces first. I'll probably will have to have the battery replaced at some point. I've figured out that that is adding an estimated 3 cents per km. Peanuts compared to the money it has been saving -and still is.
 
Hey Brian, I traded in a 2012 Subaru Outback when I got my PHEV, so I can comment directly. My Subaru had 170km on it, so still had some life, but I was attracted by the rebates (unfortunately no longer offered here in Ontario), the technology and my desire to generate less carbon. Overall, the Outlander is very similar to the Outback from a space and features point of view. It tows a bit less, but I'm okay with that.

In my experience, Subaru's overall quality is a little higher than Mitsubishi's. However the Mits quality has improved a lot from when I drove an earlier model Outlander in 2011.

I did love the Subaru in snow, the suspension and CVT were very smooth, and it was quiet on the highway. I haven't driven the Outlander much in snow yet, but I hear it is pretty good. The engine in the Outlander is almost impossible to hear unless you floor it, so it is quiet as well. Very quiet on electric of course.

I find fuel economy in "Save" mode (where the ICE runs to maintain battery level) is around 6.0 to 8.0 litres/100km. The Outback was in the 7.0 to 9.0 range. The benefit is if you are able to drive electric a lot, the Outlander can do much better. I drive electric most of the week, with occasional longer trips, and it has been averaging 4.8 l/100km overall.

Bottom line, if Subaru offered a PHEV it would have been my first choice. However, the Outlander is basically the only choice in this segment and it is also very good. It has been refined over a number of years, and there is a lot of information available if you have issues.

FWIW,
Mike.
 
blweeden said:
Well that's interesting. And concerning!

I wonder what the reason for that is. It seems that the reliability of Mitsu products has been OK from some data I've seen, so ... curious.

I see you're a potential future owner, so maybe it hasn't warded you off entirely yet :).

Brian

3 words: Federal Tax Credit :) I'm actually more of a Toyota guy (if there was a plug-in RAV4 for 2-3 thousand more, I would get it). Whenever US gets the 13.8 kWh battery, that credit rises to $6,711, plus another $1,500 state (California), meaning at least an $8,000 difference to anything else that doesn't qualify. Also, as you mentioned, the reliability of the Outlander has been relatively good.

msmatt said:
Bottom line, if Subaru offered a PHEV it would have been my first choice. However, the Outlander is basically the only choice in this segment and it is also very good. It has been refined over a number of years, and there is a lot of information available if you have issues.

2019 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid will be available end of this month: https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/crosstrek/hybrid.html
 
Woodman411 said:
blweeden said:
Well that's interesting. And concerning!

I wonder what the reason for that is. It seems that the reliability of Mitsu products has been OK from some data I've seen, so ... curious.

I see you're a potential future owner, so maybe it hasn't warded you off entirely yet :).

Brian

3 words: Federal Tax Credit :) I'm actually more of a Toyota guy (if there was a plug-in RAV4 for 2-3 thousand more, I would get it). Whenever US gets the 13.8 kWh battery, that credit rises to $6,711, plus another $1,500 state (California), meaning at least an $8,000 difference to anything else that doesn't qualify. Also, as you mentioned, the reliability of the Outlander has been relatively good.

msmatt said:
Bottom line, if Subaru offered a PHEV it would have been my first choice. However, the Outlander is basically the only choice in this segment and it is also very good. It has been refined over a number of years, and there is a lot of information available if you have issues.

2019 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid will be available end of this month: https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/crosstrek/hybrid.html

Sorry, I meant Outback PHEV! The Crosstrek is a little small, and it didn't give much improvement in fuel economy the first time they tried it as a hybrid. I agree, a plug-in RAV4 would probably be quite popular. Too bad Toyota mostly skipped PHEV's and jumped to the hydrogen fuel cell Mirai.
 
Woodman411 said:
blweeden said:
Well that's interesting. And concerning!

I wonder what the reason for that is. It seems that the reliability of Mitsu products has been OK from some data I've seen, so ... curious.

I see you're a potential future owner, so maybe it hasn't warded you off entirely yet :).

Brian

3 words: Federal Tax Credit :)
I am somewhat confused. First you say lack of recurring repeat purchase and purchase loyalty is a tele tall sign on what to expect from the car. Then you say, the reason for scoring like it does is Federal Tax Credits, so it would say nothing for the car or the brand itself. I an also curious: to what extend is Mitsubishi already affected by this in the US? Did they have models that were subsidised earlier but not anymore?

In the Netherlands, in the first quarter of 2013 Mitsubishi sold about 20.000 PHEVs, where they had sold 2700 cars in 2012, counting all quarters and all models. The biggest incentive for the PHEV is now gone. Imagine where Mitsubishi would end up if they created such a list today. First you would see all the other brands. And then a few blank pages. And then, at the bottom of the very last page, would be Mitsubishi.
 
msmatt said:
However the Mits quality has improved a lot from when I drove an earlier model Outlander in 2011.
I owned a 2010 Outlander Diesel before buying my 2013 PHEV and to me the 2010 felt much, much better. I think this has mostly to do with the effect of weight and cost savings on the body work. Compared to the 2010 car everything feels like it is made of aluminium foil with the 2013 car.

I can imagine the latest PHEVs have some improvements in the interior and in the drive train, but I assume the body work is mostly the same?
 
anko said:
msmatt said:
However the Mits quality has improved a lot from when I drove an earlier model Outlander in 2011.
I owned a 2010 Outlander Diesel before buying my 2013 PHEV and to me the 2010 felt much, much better. I think this has mostly to do with the effect of weight and cost savings on the body work. Compared to the 2010 car everything feels like it is made of aluminium foil with the 2013 car.

I can imagine the latest PHEVs have some improvements in the interior and in the drive train, but I assume the body work is mostly the same?

Well, I rear-ended a BMW M3 (at slow speed) on Friday - no damage to the PHEV. So must be heavy gauge foil at the front. :lol:
 
I joined this forum recently as part of my research into the Outlander PHEV, and I'm convinced enough to be selling my Subaru Outback 3.0Rn and getting one in the next few months.

My job changed a couple of years ago and now instead of driving 20,000 miles a year I'm doing about 5 miles a day during the week with longer trips at the weekend and I still need a large boot, 4WD and ground clearance as I live in a rural area - exactly what a PHEV suits. I'll be sad to say goodbye to the Subaru, as I've had several Legacys before my current Outback and just love the grip and handling which I've rarely seen any other large estate car get close to. But short journeys aren't doing that nice flat six engine any good and the LPG conversion that made fueling it affordable doesn't really give that much benefit on short journeys.

There's certainly plenty of enthusiasm for the Outlander PHEV and lively enough forums. Also the second hand price of 2014 models in the UK makes them an extremely affordable option for people like me. I also have a 1991 Mitsubishi Pajero, so am no stranger to Mitsubishi 4WD vehicles, and although I doubt a 2014 Outlander will be anywhere near as reliable as my 27 year old Pajero has proven to be, I don't have any real worries. It might even mean I very reluctantly sell the Pajero if the Outlander can cope with driving on fields and filling the boot with chopped logs...

Rich.
 
blweeden said:
I'm going to check one out at a dealer in the States on Saturday. I'm trying to figure a suitable replacement for our Subaru Outback. And let me tell you, there's lot of people out there that LOVE their Subarus, and I can largely see why. We could end up getting another one, but this vehicle looks pretty neat. One thing I can't tell from the forum though, is, does this vehicle inspire fans? Because I think that's a good sign for a car.

Brian

For sure the prospective from US is far different from EU

I'm not sure if there are many "fan boys" for Mitsubishi or Subaru in EU

I would bet that in EU, people love more Germans cars, and other EU made cars

Yes, Toyota is appreciated for reliability in some EU markets, but reliability is not something that make people "fan" of the brand ... maybe it create loyalty, but be "fan", in my view is more about the "car style and the driving experience".

I got my PHEV, since 2nd hand was cheap enough, and it was looking a nice introduction to the EV world with an interesting impact on cheap commuting, and the bonus to avoid visiting a tank station on a regular base

After 2y of ownership, I'm glad I found a good official service near me (having a good reliable official service , nearby, it is something that every Outlander PHEV should look for before make the decision to own one of these PHEV) ... and as well, it did help that my car still look "young", for having already 140k km, the interior does not look at all it got so much "life" ... and so far zero issue ... and for what I can read here, except for battery degradation that is more a philosophical concern, there is no know issue with this car ... it is looking designed to be as reliable as possible

Back to be a fan .... "car style and the driving experience" ... I think the Outlander fail badly ... the style is subjective ... but this car is not really a fun car to drive ... compared to a BMW x3 (which unfortunately is not available in PHEV form) ... the BMW style and drive experience is way ahead of the Outlander PHEV

PS: Even my previous Dacia Duster was more fun to drive then this Outlander ... and the previous BMW X1 was a different league about "driving experience"
PPS: After few months owning a Outlander PHEV I found myself driving like a "grand-pa" ... luckily I still have a BMW 335i cabrio for still remember what does mean "to drive"
 
greendwarf said:
Well, I rear-ended a BMW M3 (at slow speed) on Friday - no damage to the PHEV. So must be heavy gauge foil at the front. :lol:
I WAS talking about body work. I would think you hit him with more than just that? :lol:
 
elm70 said:
blweeden said:
I'm going to check one out at a dealer in the States on Saturday. I'm trying to figure a suitable replacement for our Subaru Outback. And let me tell you, there's lot of people out there that LOVE their Subarus, and I can largely see why. We could end up getting another one, but this vehicle looks pretty neat. One thing I can't tell from the forum though, is, does this vehicle inspire fans? Because I think that's a good sign for a car.

Brian

For sure the prospective from US is far different from EU

I'm not sure if there are many "fan boys" for Mitsubishi or Subaru in EU

I would bet that in EU, people love more Germans cars, and other EU made cars

Yes, Toyota is appreciated for reliability in some EU markets, but reliability is not something that make people "fan" of the brand ... maybe it create loyalty, but be "fan", in my view is more about the "car style and the driving experience".

I got my PHEV, since 2nd hand was cheap enough, and it was looking a nice introduction to the EV world with an interesting impact on cheap commuting, and the bonus to avoid visiting a tank station on a regular base

After 2y of ownership, I'm glad I found a good official service near me (having a good reliable official service , nearby, it is something that every Outlander PHEV should look for before make the decision to own one of these PHEV) ... and as well, it did help that my car still look "young", for having already 140k km, the interior does not look at all it got so much "life" ... and so far zero issue ... and for what I can read here, except for battery degradation that is more a philosophical concern, there is no know issue with this car ... it is looking designed to be as reliable as possible

Back to be a fan .... "car style and the driving experience" ... I think the Outlander fail badly ... the style is subjective ... but this car is not really a fun car to drive ... compared to a BMW x3 (which unfortunately is not available in PHEV form) ... the BMW style and drive experience is way ahead of the Outlander PHEV

PS: Even my previous Dacia Duster was more fun to drive then this Outlander ... and the previous BMW X1 was a different league about "driving experience"
PPS: After few months owning a Outlander PHEV I found myself driving like a "grand-pa" ... luckily I still have a BMW 335i cabrio for still remember what does mean "to drive"

I wouldn't drive any modern consumer-level car for fun. If I feel like real motoring I get my Triumph TR4 from 1963 out and have a blast!
As it is, my PHEV does its job admirably, is completely practical for my use, is reliable and wears well. What else would I want from a daily transport?
 
jaapv said:
I wouldn't drive any modern consumer-level car for fun. If I feel like real motoring I get my Triumph TR4 from 1963 out and have a blast!
As it is, my PHEV does its job admirably, is completely practical for my use, is reliable and wears well. What else would I want from a daily transport?

On Daily base I'm missing the "acceleration"

Yes, If I floor the gas, it does accelerate a bit, but it does start the ICE and there is quite a gap on delivering the power
If we want to avoid to start ICE, especially at low speed which does not require lot of power, there is a luck of "power" since the 60kw from the battery is still only available in theory but not in practice, plus the torque limiter is too aggressive (strangely ... if I remove the fuel pomp fuse, it will open up the car a bit in EV mode, making it a bit more reactive )

More in general as SUV .. fun factor should be doing some off road, but this PHEV it is one of the many SUV designed for onroad, not for offroad fun

As on road SUV, the BMW X1 is/was much more agile and more reactive in the twisty/mountain roads

This PHEV SUV ... it is a very practical car ... but quite "boring" to drive.

PS: About pure fun driving cars .. yes .. old analogue cars have their own appealing ... but ... they luck of the power and agility of modern cars ... actually I'm currently looking to add an old Italian spider to my garage .. something produced between the '70 and '80 ... so ... not far from your TR4
 
Well, you might be surprised about the feeling of power ;) ...These cars have far more interesting torque curves than modern ones. If you haven't done four-wheel drifts with a coal-cart suspension you haven't had real fun with a car :lol:
One hand on the wheel, one hand on the outside of the door to stay on your seat, front wheels opposite to the direction, tail hanging out, flies between your teeth because you have a grin on your face - that is driving a car..
 
I suppose this happen on a close road / truck ... else ... :twisted:

PS: Unfortunately ... I never drift intentional so far ... so I'm not qualified for speak about proper car fan :ugeek: ... nor I have been able to drive on close road (with except of a driving training .. but was only an "introduction" half day on a very small truck ... using my old BMW X1) ... I did unintentionally "drift" twice in my car history ... on a old Alfa Romeo 90 .. and on a Fiat Coupe LE ... so old memories ... luckily without consequences ... plus a couple(s) of ice sliding too .. again always with an happy ending.

PPS: I plan to visit the nearest truck, in Poznan, once the motorway from my place is completed .. else the trip is too much annoying compared to the fan on the track ... but ... more then drift ... I'm for experience G forces , and see the limit of the car in the turns
 
anko said:
I am somewhat confused. First you say lack of recurring repeat purchase and purchase loyalty is a tele tall sign on what to expect from the car. Then you say, the reason for scoring like it does is Federal Tax Credits, so it would say nothing for the car or the brand itself. I an also curious: to what extend is Mitsubishi already affected by this in the US? Did they have models that were subsidised earlier but not anymore?

Hello Anko, please allow me to clarify. The OP asked what the "fanship" was for this vehicle, to understand if this was a good vehicle. I replied a better indicator of a good vehicle (versus asking users on a forum dedicated to a vehicle) is purchase loyalty, where Mitsubishi, at least in the USA, ranks near-bottom. He then asked why I'm still interested in the Outlander PHEV, despite the overall brand's low loyalty and satisfaction ratings. The Federal Tax Credit is one primary reason why I'm still personally interested in this vehicle (there are other reasons). The surveys also don't separate the loyalty and satisfaction scores by model, it's possible the Outlander PHEV scores higher than, for example, the Thailand-made Mirage, which scores low on Consumer Reports reliability report.
 
richr said:
There's certainly plenty of enthusiasm for the Outlander PHEV and lively enough forums. Also the second hand price of 2014 models in the UK makes them an extremely affordable option for people like me. I also have a 1991 Mitsubishi Pajero, so am no stranger to Mitsubishi 4WD vehicles, and although I doubt a 2014 Outlander will be anywhere near as reliable as my 27 year old Pajero has proven to be, I don't have any real worries. It might even mean I very reluctantly sell the Pajero if the Outlander can cope with driving on fields and filling the boot with chopped logs...

Rich.

The Pajero's of the 90's were bulletproof (true, a lot of vehicles in the 90's were, the vehicle era of over-engineering), still, the Pajero is legendary and has a cult-following in many countries. Outlander... not so much :) , at least it shows Mitsubishi's potential to make good vehicles. The Mirage is probably the other side of the coin, the potential to make not-so-good vehicles.
 
elm70 said:
I suppose this happen on a close road / truck ... else ... :twisted:

PS: Unfortunately ... I never drift intentional so far ... so I'm not qualified for speak about proper car fan :ugeek: ... nor I have been able to drive on close road (with except of a driving training .. but was only an "introduction" half day on a very small truck ... using my old BMW X1) ... I did unintentionally "drift" twice in my car history ... on a old Alfa Romeo 90 .. and on a Fiat Coupe LE ... so old memories ... luckily without consequences ... plus a couple(s) of ice sliding too .. again always with an happy ending.

PPS: I plan to visit the nearest truck, in Poznan, once the motorway from my place is completed .. else the trip is too much annoying compared to the fan on the track ... but ... more then drift ... I'm for experience G forces , and see the limit of the car in the turns
The open road is fine, as long as you can see that nobody else is near ;). Or approaching ahead for that matter :mrgreen:
I once did a 180º spin on a motorway. Driving a TR6 (a rather overpowered car for the suspension) I accelerated out of a petrol station and hit a puddle of motor oil. I managed to stay on the tarmac, but when neatly parked next to the shoulder was facing two lines of cars that had braked to a halt... : :oops:
 
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