Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Saratoga, CA
windymiller wrote:
As advised to us by Mitsubishi, via the dealer, in response to our question about how to slow the rate of degradation;

[*]Always run the battery down to "empty" before recharging
[*]Always charge to completely full
[*]Never partially charge
[*]See if that helps

I have it on an email from them somewhere.

That's basically everything you DO NOT want to do if you want to prolong the life of a lithium-ion battery! You get the longest life from a li-ion battery if you use only a very narrow portion of its total SoC range. See Table 2. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
STS134 wrote:
I think 85% is a bit high ...............


You have to take it into context of why I said it IMO which was "It basically puts the PHEV into a automatic reduced use of the battery mode".

Would you agree using the battery less decreases degradation?


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
ThudnBlundr wrote:
Prius batteries were a totally different battery chemistry to our PHEV's Lithium batteries until fairly recently (except for the Prius PHEV), so it is pointless comparing them


I think I could go either way on this statement ie I see both sides of the argument. So I will stay out of it. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 308
Location: Dee Why
windymiller wrote:
As advised to us by Mitsubishi, via the dealer, in response to our question about how to slow the rate of degradation;

[*]Always run the battery down to "empty" before recharging
[*]Always charge to completely full
[*]Never partially charge
[*]See if that helps

I have it on an email from them somewhere.


I think they just made that up......

Or copied and pasted from an old NiCad battery powered remote race car instruction sheet....


Last edited by HHL on Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
HHL wrote:
You could also just drive the car like any other, charge it when you feel like it and generally not worry too much about the battery. That's what I do. 8-)


I agree HHL except I can hardly ever get to drive it. Oh well, back to the Ford Courier ute for me. I know my place. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Saratoga, CA
Trex wrote:
STS134 wrote:
I think 85% is a bit high ...............


You have to take it into context of why I said it IMO which was "It basically puts the PHEV into a automatic reduced use of the battery mode".

Would you agree using the battery less decreases degradation?

Sure. Putting the voltage at 3.92 V/cell and storing the entire vehicle in a refrigerated garage and never driving it, decreases degradation even further though. :D

But more seriously, I think particularly in hot weather, the degradation caused by keeping the battery at such a high SoC for most of the time would probably outweigh the degradation caused by increased regen current. By the time Save mode kicks in, it's doing almost full regen.


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:33 am
Posts: 29
STS134 wrote:
That's basically everything you DO NOT want to do if you want to prolong the life of a lithium-ion battery! You get the longest life from a li-ion battery if you use only a very narrow portion of its total SoC range. See Table 2. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries


At the risk of incurring the wrath of the OP, and in particular the second last sentence of the top post in this thread.....

Thats what we have in an email. I can only take it as it is presented. Has it made any difference to the rate of degradation as reported through the OBDII port? No. Has it turned the vehicles into gas guzzlers? Yes.

I guess if they are guzzling gas, they are not using the battery (so much), and if the battery is not being used so much, there will be less degradation, so thats perhaps MM's logic.

But, as MM are God, I am inclined to believe all they say. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
:?
elm70 wrote:
Trex wrote:
...

I have to get this out of the way first though. Batteries degrade no matter if you never use them and say you put them in a fridge (a common way to protect RC batteries from my experience.). Age will kill them eventually at this moment in time.
...


I think you like too much Mitsubishi/Outlander/PHEV for be objective in this subject.


So do I have to I hate Mitsi or the PHEV or both to be objective about batteries. Or is it somewhere in the middle? :?

elm70 wrote:

A car should be able to last at least 15 years ... ok Mitsubischi Australia decided that 10y is the life of their PHEV .. since they made a mistake on some Australian brochures , and they have been forced to define a precise life time for the Outlander PHEV



Just what the hell does Mitsubishi Australia decisions have to do with you? How do they affect you? Are you moving here? :? Sure you can have a opinion of what happens here but with you no "IMO" or "I think" just a smart arse comment or trolling IMHO.

I think 10yrs is a reasonable classification for a lifetime of a vehicle in these modern times and I live here in Australia where this affects me.

elm70 wrote:

You are claiming since ages that SOH does not impact much on EV range ... but this is 100% false and wrong



Ok, now you are going to lie about me for trolling purposes. May have to get the Mods involved I think.

On this forum I have done 7 range test that I have posted here individually. I have had to put up with people saying its not necessary to do but I keep doing them and I keep posting them.

Here is a summary of the 7 individual posts you LYING TROLL.

Trex wrote:
I did another range test on my oldest PHEV.

I do this test by driving with a fully charged drive battery early morning, (light traffic so few red lights) with no heating or air conditioner along the same route (same speed) after resetting the odometer and note when the petrol motor starts and goes into hybrid mode. The results of the tests are:

1. 52.5kms Just after buying Phev early April 2014
2. 52.9kms 6ths months later ie October 2014
3. 51.8kms April 2015 Now this test had notable more traffic (some big area championships soccer games) ie stopped at traffic lights more than last 2
4. 53.0kms October 2015
5. 48.2kms January 2017 Battery condition was 86.05% according to EVBatmon.
6. 45.1kms February 2018 Battery condition was 78.68% according to EVBatmon. Geolander 4wd tyres fitted before this test.
7. 38.8kms December 2018 Battery condition was 72.11% according to EVBatmon.


Pretty sure I was saying there that degradation is affecting range. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
elm70 wrote:
Other thing that I find hard to accept ... it is to try to dis-inform people that the Mitsibishi PHEV batteries are worrying free
Even recent PHEV from 2017 shown a mayor drop of SOH even with less then 20.000km ... the WatchDog facebook page is full of people reporting very poor SOH , also from people with a new PHEV and few km done


So you are saying is that I am deliberately supply false information (disinform) about PHEV drive batteries? Where TROLL?

As for worrying about the drive battery what does it do? Whinging here or on youtube is not going fix it for me. Get to your dealer and start the process rolling as well as contacting your importer which for me is Mitsubishi Australia.

elm70 wrote:

With your car you are lucky due to the legal action done by somebody that believe in opposite way then you, and thanks to then ...............



Who is somebody? :?

From my dealings with Mitsubishi Australia it is a case by case basis. Now I have been working with them for about a year now and they are treating me very helpfully so far.

Will they give a new battery? Not sure yet. Some software changes, so I can use the reserve at the bottom of the drive battery just sitting there could be good enough for me.

Now that is as far as I will go with this TROLL.

Now where are the Mods?


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 Post subject: Re: How to best protect your drive battery.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
Sumpy wrote:
I think people are worrying far too much about the battery in the PHEV.

I just drive and charge the car as is required and what fits around my life. The car is just a tool to get me and mine from A to B, and it does that reliably and comfortably (albeit with a wobbly gear knob :roll: ooer, steady!).

I don't have the watchdog app (stone him he's a luddite!) and I don't know exactly what state of health my battery is before, during or after a drive (too busy enjoying life with my family or listening to music or both (kids hate both :lol: )), It still takes about 5 hours to charge overnight on the provided charger that came with the car, so I am happy that the car still does 22 to 26 miles on EV alone. I look at the battery the same way that I have looked at every lead acid battery, brake pads/shoes and discs, tyres or wiper blades from all the cars I have owned before, it is a consumable item that has a certain life and will wear-out, degrade or generally stop working at some point.

If my EV range drops too much too quickly, then I will of course be back to the dealer to get it sorted, has anyone had a battery reduction of 50% or more?

I plan on keeping this car for a few more years yet, and if in another 5 years say my EV only range is in single figures then I will look into the feasibility of a replacement battery (hopefully solid state) or the option I am really hoping for is to change the car for a BEV depending on how the charging infrastructure has improved by then (looks like a battery upgrade in the PHEV then).

I really enjoy reading all the different views and information on this forum, but for me I try to enjoy every day to the fullest I can, and to be honest the battery in my car is not on my list of things to worry about.


+1. I just want get to drive the bloody thing. :roll:


Last edited by Trex on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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