EV Average, what does it display ?

The EV-Average calculations in the MMCS are a big mystery to me! It looks like being either an instant calculation or an average over a certain short time, but definitely not an EV-Average, neither in Manual Mode, neither in Automatic Mode.

The % of EV-Driving is always the same for Auto and Manual.

Was a Mitsubishi trainee allowed to implement that MMCS ?

Who knows... it is a complete waste of space on the screen as far as I'm concerned. At first I used to be pleased if I got the % up because I thought it was the % distance travelled on ev, but have decided that it might be the % of total energy used on the journey which is completed on ev - this is meaningless if you've used the ice to charge the battery anyway. Also, I like to use the ice to do the most power-hungry bits of the journey, so in a way the lower the ev% the better.

I would prefer a stat something like - proportion of distance travelled when the ice is off - at least that would give me something worth maximising when doing a regular out of range journey.

I wish the displays could be more customisable - give me a time elapsed, average speed, instant mpg instead!
cheers
H

And what would instant mpg tell you? Not much, as some of the fuel is used for driving and some is used to charge the battery. You could maximize instant mpg by keeping your SOC on or above 80% as effectively, you would not be driving a hybrid car anymore.

You want to maximize average mpg, not instant mpg.

I used to use the instant mpg quite a lot on my polo - after all, the way to increase the average is to keep the instant mpg above current average It can be useful to get quick feedback on how your driving style impacts the consumption and might solve the endless speculation about how efficient using the "charge" button or the heating is, for instance.

I think all cars should have a prominent mpg readout, preferably translated into £s so that people who floor it might appreciate the impact they are having on their wallet (and perhaps help the planet a little)...
cheers
H

Your polo wasn't a hybrid, was it?

With an empty battery, at 100 km/h steady, instant fuel consumption is about 9 km/liter (22 mpg or so). As SOC increases, so does the instant mpg. Not because you drive more efficient, but because the charge current is cut. Instant mpg is at is best with SOC at or above 80%.

And this is when the car is least efficient. Otherwise, they would not have created something like parallel hybrid mode.

There is an instant MPG reading. It is verrry crude and really not worth the effort to program the graphics on the MMCS. On the RHS of the trip info energy screen. [the one with the 3 dials]. there is the average mpg number. in the green ring around the number the colour changes proportional to the ICE mpg. My PHEV is set to L/100km and the scale is from 0-20L/100km. It would be better to have the instant mpg as the number and the dial gauge as the moving green smudge average mpg.

I have an aftermarket HUD unit. This plugs into the OBD2 port. The unit I have can display instant mpg as a digital number 0-50L/100km as well as instant engine rpm on a bar type dial and a choice of road speed or AUX battery voltage on a large digital number. These are inexpensive units and require minimal effort to wire in. I installed mainly for overspeed warning features. The point made above about the instant mpg jumping all over is valid as the ICE adapts to road and wind conditions as well as generator and battery and traffic needs.

Instant mpg is still useful as it is the only real way of knowing what the ICE is actually doing, as the present instrumentation lies about the operation of the ICE when displaying the data on the dash and MMCS.

During the test drive of the PHEV the salesperson made comments that the ICE turned on and off to the changing power needs. This is not always the case as many times when cruising in parallel hybrid mode and the accelerator is lifted, the displays show the ICE stopping. It does not, and engine rpm stays constant with the road speed. Yes, the fuel consumption decreases, but the ICE still operates. As accelerator is depressed again fuel consumption increases and the displays show ICE operation again. The ICE did not turn off and back on again as the car displays indicate.

There are so many bugs in the instrumentation that the PHEV is a bit of an embarasment to the programming ability of the Mitsubishi engineers. Hopefully we won't be left with the present instrumentation software for the life of the car and Mitsubishi will supply a decent software instrumentation upgrade that compliments other features of the car.

Is it realy lying?

IMHO, blue arrow off means ICE not charging the battery and red arrow off means ICE not driving the front wheels. Does your manual say that when both are off the engine is not running or is this perhaps an interpretation you have added yourself?

I consider the MpKW as important as the MpG and this average is not working at all as it should. It is unbeliveable that I have to reord my consumption of Electric Power and my consumption of Petrol and to do myself the math at the end of the month or at refill.

Please Mitsubishi, If you are reading here, get it changed and decent....

anko said:

Is it realy lying?

IMHO, blue arrow off means ICE not charging the battery and red arrow off means ICE not driving the front wheels. Does your manual say that when both are off the engine is not running or is this perhaps an interpretation you have added yourself?

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My observations show that if the car is in parallel hybrid mode, [clutch locked & ICE operating], with the orange arrow displayed, and if the driver slightly lifts the accelerator, the ICE is still operating and consuming petrol and the engine is still connected with the clutch to the front wheels, yet the display shows the ICE is OFF. All arrows turn OFF. If the brake is applied then regen disconnects the clutch and ICE rpm drops away to about 1200rpm with 1.5-1.8L/100km petrol. This is about the same as 1.8L/h consumption while stationery and charging. The displays don't show any recharging arrow. This is a bug, as the engineers would not leave the ICE running without surplus going to the battery. The fuel consumption still indicates petrol consumption like when recharging while stationery, in either SAVE or CHARGE modes, but there is no indication. I have seen the recharging arrow come on if driving in B0 under similar conditions, so it has something to do with the programming of the display.

You say the display tells you that the engine is off, because both blue and red arrow are off. Are simply repeating the same statement you made the other day or have you checked your manual to see if this is really what it means? I still think it is just telling you the engine is not charging or driving the front wheels.

Charing takes way more than 1.8 l/h. The ice can recharge the battery to 80% in approx. 30 minutes. We know this will cost at about 3 - 4 liters of gas. This means a consumption of between 6 - 8 l/h. So, much more than 1.8 l/h.

Believe it or not, in the phev there is a big difference between idling and charing while stationary. The consumption you see is comparable to what you see when the engine truely idles and most likely just enough to overcome the internal resistance of the engine.

The stationary charging rate on my AUS shipped PHEV is dependent on the position of the throttle. With the throttle un-depressed, my PHEV starts recharging with ICE @ 1200rpm and 1.8L/h and after some minutes the petrol consumption increases to 3.7L/h. As the throttle is depressed, ICE rpm and petrol consumption increases, up to 3500rpm and 6.0L/h petrol consumption. If there was some readout of generator power, the relative generation efficiency could be seen. You would need to hold a brick on the throttle to recharge to 80% in the 30 minute period mentioned. The ONE time I tested the CHARGE mode while stationary, the PHEV took over an hour to fill to the 80% where the ICE turned OFF. This was from 2bars battery to 13bars.

BTW I was just recounting what is seen on the displays, vs what information from the computer through the OBD2 port was. No comment on what the manual may have in it. Lots of confusion to be read there.

Maybe the graphic of the engine could change colour when it was operating and then the arrows could show if there was energy flow to the battery or wheels in addition. All the graphics are just software and could be more informative if the engineers put their heads together some more.

I started the topic as a question on EV-Average, not on 'if ICE is running or not' and 'not either on MpG' ;-) It looks like the MpKW are not interresting for anybody, do you folks all have electricity for free in the UK ? :mrgreen:

JKL said:

I started the topic as a question on EV-Average, not on 'if ICE is running or not' and 'not either on MpG' ;-) It looks like the MpKW are not interresting for anybody, do you folks all have electricity for free in the UK ? :mrgreen:

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No, we don't! There seems to be a blind focus on mpg, rather than overall running costs - I guess it gives a (possibly false) sense of smugness when you see lifetime MPG figures in the high hundreds! I suppose that you could also take the view that the overall running costs are going to be dominated by the petrol costs for most of us - petrol is a lot more expensive than electricity and the EV range is quite small, so petrol consumption can quickly drown out the savings of EV operation.

maby said:

There seems to be a blind focus on mpg, rather than overall running costs

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And I thought their was a blind focus on cost rather than environment :mrgreen:

gwatpe said:

my PHEV starts recharging with ICE @ 1200rpm and 1.8L/h and after some minutes the petrol consumption increases to 3.7L/h. As the throttle is depressed, ICE rpm and petrol consumption increases, up to 3500rpm and 6.0L/h petrol consumption.

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Mine also starts at approx. 1.8 l/h in a very short (<30 seconds I think) warm up phase. Are you sure it is several minutes?

Of course, consumption increases when RPM's go up. But does this mean charging is also going faster? Apparently, it takes 1.8 l/h to idle at 1200 rpm. And then an additional 1.9 l/h to actual charge (I think I may have been a bit too optimistic with my 80% in 30 minutes). Then, when idling at 3500 rpm, you would expect slightly 3 * 1.8 = 5.4 l/h, just to spin the engine. That leave slightly more than 1.6 l/h for charging. Roughly the same as you use at 1200 rpm.

I don't think it charges any faster when you push the throttle. You are just making more revs and are generating more heat (and smell :mrgreen: ) while charging.

JKL said:

I started the topic as a question on EV-Average, not on 'if ICE is running or not' and 'not either on MpG' ;-) It looks like the MpKW are not interresting for anybody, do you folks all have electricity for free in the UK ? :mrgreen:

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YES - not really, but the overall impact on my £2k pa energy bill (I have electric heating at home not in the car :lol: ) is not noticeable. What I do notice is not going to the petrol station so often

Well, in the Netherlands nearly so, 7 cent per KWh at home. Unfortunately many public points have priced themselves out of the market, but there are plenty of free points to be found.

I have a GX3h so without the MMCS I have to perform all calculations manually. To date I have done around 1,670 Miles.

Based on the following calculations

263KW of energy used to charge my vehicle at a cost of 9.9p per KW resulting in £26 of electricity consumed. In pure EV mode I tend to get 28 miles out of a full charge which takes 11KW per charge which therefore results in approximately 670 miles. Using current fuel cost of £1.08 per litre, this then equates to an equivalent 126MPG. So the only way I can achieve 148MPG in my view is for fuel costs to go back up to £1.27 per litre and run the car in pure EV mode.

In total I've done around 1,670 miles so 1,000 miles directly related to fuel purchase of £123 which equates to 40MPG.

So my total fuel bill for 1,670 miles is £149 giving me an overall combined average MPG of 55MPG if I base this at a cost of £1.08 per litre.

Even though there is an option on the GX3h to set the MPG from Automatic to Manual, as far as I can tell this only lets you able to reset the MPG figures for a current journey, as it automatically goes back to Automatic when you turn the car off. This is therefore pointless. Personally I would have liked to have set it to manual mode, and reset on request so I could either have average MPG to date, or elect to reset it say between each fuel refill so I could get average MPG for that tank of fuel.

jaapv said:

Well, in the Netherlands nearly so, 7 cent per KWh at home.

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:shock: At home? Not where I live.