The Joys of Paddling

jaapv said:

Yes there is a difference. In N the car won't react to the accelerator.

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You are right that PHEV will not respond to accelerator in N but I am not too sure if B0 is any different then N in terms of PHEV gliding or costing. In B0 it seems to move forward quite freely without any feeling of resistance and the Eco meter sits exactly on the border line between blue charge and upper green zone. To me it looks like they are both the same meaning PHEV is in neutral both in N & B0 but will not respond to accelerator if in N and will if in B0.

Yes, ufo, I reckon that is the only difference between B0 and N. I wouldn't normally coast in a normal car in N, but B0 makes that a good option in the PHEV.
H

Hypermiler said:

Yes, ufo, I reckon that is the only difference between B0 and N. I wouldn't normally coast in a normal car in N, but B0 makes that a good option in the PHEV.
H

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Hi
Everyone is aware, I expect, that you can achieve this coasting effect by keeping your foot slightly on the accelerator whichever B mode you are in?
Kind regards
Mark

Yes, that's a good point - we use that in the Prius too. I do like the hands and feet free coasting though! (steering of course!).

avensys said:

Hypermiler said:

Yes, ufo, I reckon that is the only difference between B0 and N. I wouldn't normally coast in a normal car in N, but B0 makes that a good option in the PHEV.
H

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Hi
Everyone is aware, I expect, that you can achieve this coasting effect by keeping your foot slightly on the accelerator whichever B mode you are in?
Kind regards
Mark

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But I suspect by doing that you are consuming battery power even though minimal. If you watch Eco meter very carefully you can observe it, but also be careful watching the road too while watching the meter closely or set your FCM to far distance to avoid rear ending someone.

As a salesman i always instruct my customers on the bebefits of using the regenerative braking system. It is designed to increase resistance to the drive system through decelleration and breaking. Normally energy from this is wasted.

It has other bebefits too, the car slows more evenly and is safer in poor conditions and as its the motors slowing the vehicle, you prelong the life of your bads and discs.

even as a UK dealer I am unsure if the brakelights come on when the B5 level is active ????

how do you test it. lol

ufo said:

avensys said:

Hypermiler said:

Yes, ufo, I reckon that is the only difference between B0 and N. I wouldn't normally coast in a normal car in N, but B0 makes that a good option in the PHEV.
H

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Hi
Everyone is aware, I expect, that you can achieve this coasting effect by keeping your foot slightly on the accelerator whichever B mode you are in?
Kind regards
Mark

Click to expand...

But I suspect by doing that you are consuming battery power even though minimal. If you watch Eco meter very carefully you can observe it, but also be careful watching the road too while watching the meter closely or set your FCM to far distance to avoid rear ending someone.

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Hi,
Yes, I'd agree that you may use a tiny amount of battery, or conversely be slowing the car slightly, if you don't have it quite right but as you say the difference will be minimal and it is pretty easy to judge without looking at anything. It seems (at least to me) a more natural and less fussy way to drive and to adjust road speed according to the conditions to avoid braking more than needed. I really don't get all this paddling (but I do get putting it into B5 for one foot driving (with the proviso of probably no brake lights)) apart from the novelty factore.
kind regards,
Mark

king01 said:

As a salesman i always instruct my customers on the bebefits of using the regenerative braking system. It is designed to increase resistance to the drive system through decelleration and breaking. Normally energy from this is wasted.

It has other bebefits too, the car slows more evenly and is safer in poor conditions and as its the motors slowing the vehicle, you prelong the life of your bads and discs.

even as a UK dealer I am unsure if the brakelights come on when the B5 level is active ????

how do you test it. lol

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You'd test it by getting someone to follow you

If you are advising customers to use B5 for standard driving rather than just going down hill, and the brake lights don't illuminate, then you should check with your legal team for liability if someone ends up getting rear ended. Brake lights are there for a reason and while B5 isn't hard braking it is certainly harder than a following car might reasonaly expect.

Additionally, using the foot brake DOES use regenerative braking (check the power meter next time you drive) so that some of the braking is used to charge the battery. The question really is how much friction is used at the same time as regen?

Kind regards,
Mark

You are still liable if you rear-end someone regardless of whether or not their brake lights are working and/or faulty. Lights are an indication, and should not be relied on when driving. One should drive in a manner so as you are never in a situation where you're so close that you don't have enough stopping room, regardless of whether any of the lights are working.

avensys said:

king01 said:

how do you test it. lol

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You'd test it by getting someone to follow you

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Or at night?

pheverish said:

You are still liable if you rear-end someone regardless of whether or not their brake lights are working and/or faulty. Lights are an indication, and should not be relied on when driving. One should drive in a manner so as you are never in a situation where you're so close that you don't have enough stopping room, regardless of whether any of the lights are working.

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I agree. But prevention is better than cure. Even the best, safest drivers, make errors occasionally and get a little distracted sometimes. But if a Mitsubishi dealer is telling PHEV buyers to use paddles to slow down instead of the foot brake, and if this is considered to be a factor in an accident, then I wouldn't fancy being that dealer.

The point is, surely, that driving using the foot brake to slow down (which uses regen braking anyway) and activating the rear brake lights is the safest way to drive.

Kind regards,
Mark

When I just got the PHEV I wished they would have fixed the B5 paddle setting to be the default but now that I have driven it for 5 months I am getting more and more addicted to the B0 setting where the car just rolls along without any additional friction from accidental braking.

My predicted driving range is often close to 50 km even when we use the air conditioner frequently. I have a feeling this driving style with looking far ahead and coasting a lot is even more efficient than B5 driving.

We tested B5 braking and checking the brake lights and they did not come on. This is a Swedish sold PHEV. Although the battery was completely full so braking was almost non existing so that could have explained it. I will try it again with less juice in the battery.

Hi
I agree - if converting energy from wheels to battery and then back again loses something at each stage, which I suppose it must do, then the most efficient way to drive is to let the car roll in B0 (or possibly with foot lightly on gas pedal in another setting, as discussed before). It only takes the slightest decline and you can literally roll for miles - also saves the charging and recharging of the battery and the motor/regen system so must presumably be best for longevity of the car too
H

Hypermiler said:

Hi
I agree - if converting energy from wheels to battery and then back again loses something at each stage, which I suppose it must do, then the most efficient way to drive is to let the car roll in B0 (or possibly with foot lightly on gas pedal in another setting, as discussed before). It only takes the slightest decline and you can literally roll for miles - also saves the charging and recharging of the battery and the motor/regen system so must presumably be best for longevity of the car too
H

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Hi,
Yes, I'd go with that 100%. Slowing the car with regen braking only recovers about 30% of the kinetic energy. Clearly, there are times you need to use brakes and a 30% recovery at these times is great. But your best economy/efficiency will be by coasting (this was called gliding with the Prius) which is B0 or any other setting with the foot slightly down. This needs anticipating road conditions/lights etc so you can slow by coasting rather than braking.
Kind regards,
Mark

One observation I did when using Save mode and tried coasting at the same time is that the ICE continues to run. But when I changed to B1 it stopped. Then I could go back to B0 without ICE running.
So either the info screen is wrong or you have to fiddle around a little extra with the paddles if you want to save petrol.

Jens

Swedephev - yes, coasting doesn't always work when using save as if the car thinks it needs to charge the battery, then it will do (also applies if you run out of battery, which is a bit annoying if you are nearly home and trying to roll the rest of the way!). I'll try the switching to B1 and back again.
Thanks
H

I don't think that regen level directly effects how the save mode works but it does indirectly. If PHEV thinks it needs more charge to keep the battery at a given level at a given time in save mode it will run ICE doesn't matter what regen level you select. Obviously selecting higher regen level will supplement ICE more and cause ICE to stop sooner than at a lower regen level. Switching to lower level regen after ICE stopped due to increased regen level is totally dependent on conditions/circumstances at a given time. It might or not depending on power requirements, battery level at that time.

I don't think it has to do with the fact that regen has charged the batteries. I could do this multiple times, set to B0, coast, ICE runs, set to B1, ICE stops directly, go back to B0, still no ICE running, press the accelerator, coast, ICE runs, set to B1 ICE stops directly. I will experiment a bit more the next time I go on a longer trip.

Jens

I don't think it has to do with the fact that regen has charged the batteries. I could do this multiple times, set to B0, coast, ICE runs, set to B1, ICE stops directly, go back to B0, still no ICE running, press the accelerator, coast, ICE runs, set to B1 ICE stops directly. I will experiment a bit more the next time I go on a longer trip.

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How strange :? Do report back with your findings please. I've watched this thread (and the related optimal motorway speed one) with interest but don't have much to contribute as I don't do enough dual carriageway driving to be able to thoroughly test this myself.

Treo said:

We tested B5 braking and checking the brake lights and they did not come on. This is a Swedish sold PHEV.

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I tried my UK PHEV in B5 mode lifting fully off the accelerator and can confirm that at speeds upto 30mph the brake lights did not come on.

Shame. I like the single pedal driving of B5 but feel safer with brake lights.

Kind regards,
Mark