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I found this on long Autobahn drives. Initially the SOC will drop, and obviously the predicted range will drop dramatically, and then it will stabilize around 40% and 12 km.
 
anko said:
until you get towards 20% real SOC
Could you clarify for me that when we're talking about 40% or 50% SOC, we're referring to the state shown on the car's instrument panel and not the 'true' (real?) SOC that is available to those who've installed extra instrumentation.
 
Thanks, jaapv. And that's effectively below 'zero' on the dashboard meter that shows the battery state. So when it's suggested that the 'sweet spot' for selecting 'Save' is somewhere below 50% SOC, that means below half-way on the meter (which may or may not correspond to a real SOC of 50%) - is my understanding correct?
 
Well, as the full capacity of the battery is not used either, 50 % real SOC should be approx. equal to 50% effective SOC (in other words, the battery cycles between +/- 20% and +/- 80 %, with elaborate programs coming into play should you drop below 30 %.)
 
Lithium ion batteries do not behave like lead acid batteries. If they fall below something like 83 % they are permanently damaged and cannot be recharged. In fact this takes them into a danger zone where the battery becomes unstable and can overheat.
The operating window is quite narrow but Li batteries have a high charge density compared to lead acid etc.
So, when the car says that it is out of charge it most probably has been limited to 85 %, this is the bottom of the gauge. When the gauge is indicating 50 % it is most probably actually at 93 % of full charge.
 
ChrisMiller said:
anko said:
until you get towards 20% real SOC
Could you clarify for me that when we're talking about 40% or 50% SOC, we're referring to the state shown on the car's instrument panel and not the 'true' (real?) SOC that is available to those who've installed extra instrumentation.
Yeah, sorry for that.

20% was referring to 20% real SOC, usually 1 bar on the scale.
30% was referring to 30% real SOC, usually 0 bars on the scale.
50% was referring to 50% of the scale, so 65% real SOC.

I assumed the 40% mentioned by Jaap was referring to scale, not real. As to my knowledge, he does not have the tools to measure real SOC. But I might be mistaken ;)
 
Dusz said:
Lithium ion batteries do not behave like lead acid batteries. If they fall below something like 83 % they are permanently damaged and cannot be recharged. In fact this takes them into a danger zone where the battery becomes unstable and can overheat.
The operating window is quite narrow but Li batteries have a high charge density compared to lead acid etc.
So, when the car says that it is out of charge it most probably has been limited to 85 %, this is the bottom of the gauge. When the gauge is indicating 50 % it is most probably actually at 93 % of full charge.
Hmmm ... 15% of 12 kWh = 1.8 kWh usable charge. At approx. 180 Wh / km (50 MPH steady), our EV range would be no more than 10 km. Pretty sure you got that wrong. As a matter of fact, there is documentation from Mitsubishi telling us at which SOC power for heating / cooling is cut off (20%) and at which SOC the cars comes to a halt (13% from the top of my head).

Could it be that you are thinking voltage rather than Wh?
 
Yes, the percentages were of battery voltage, but this is what will be used to limit the low point. You would still get the 12 kW of charge.
 
Dusz said:
Yes, the percentages were of battery voltage, but this is what will be used to limit the low point. You would still get the 12 kW of charge.
Okay. But be aware: whenever battery %-ages or SOC are mentioned on this forum, they always refer to capacity, not voltage. As in:
- at 30.5% capacity the engine is forced to run (higher speed)
- at approx. 26% capacity the engine is forced to run (lower speed)
- at 20% capacity the heater and A/C stop working
- at 13% capacity, the car halts
- at 65% capacity, charge current is reduced

The number of bars in the gauge is roughly mapped on the range from 30% - 100% capacity.
 
anko said:
ChrisMiller said:
anko said:
until you get towards 20% real SOC
Could you clarify for me that when we're talking about 40% or 50% SOC, we're referring to the state shown on the car's instrument panel and not the 'true' (real?) SOC that is available to those who've installed extra instrumentation.
Yeah, sorry for that.

20% was referring to 20% real SOC, usually 1 bar on the scale.
30% was referring to 30% real SOC, usually 0 bars on the scale.
50% was referring to 50% of the scale, so 65% real SOC.

I assumed the 40% mentioned by Jaap was referring to scale, not real. As to my knowledge, he does not have the tools to measure real SOC. But I might be mistaken ;)
I was referring to the scale.
 
Well just returned from my trip and thought I'd update you with results.

Thanks to Ecotrictiy and traffic delays on the motorway my plans to top up at motorway services fell by the way. I started from home, Pontefract, West Yorks showing a range of 29 miles EV, drove down the A1 to Peterborough Services (mpg showing 70) and managed to get a 'free' rapid charge, range back up to 20 miles. Back on A1 only to find access to A14/M11 closed after sitting in queue for 90 minutes, that killed of any idea of rapid charges at Cambridge or Birch hanger services, so carried on down A1 to M25 (South Minns). Was running late so no more stops until I got to my destination at Lewes, near Brighton, went via M25, Dartford, M23.

Had four days running around area, no chance to charge anywhere, other than hit the charge button a couple of times putting in 10 miles range on both occasions, no charging even at destination.

Set off back via M25, M40, M42, M6 toll, M6 back to Manchester, (no charges on way, stopped at Oxford & Stafford services but Ecotricty had beaten me to it and was not paying their fees. Managed a full charge in Manchester before travelling back to Pontefract via M62.

Whilst on motorways, dual carriageways travelled between 60 - 65mph, did not use 'save' but on some of the up hills ran in 'charge ' mode, rest of time just in normal letting car do its own thing, ran A/C very occasionally, just to cool car then switched off with windows open.

Travelled 721 miles overall and after two petrol fill ups around 65 litres total, recorded 48 mpg.

Overall very pleased with outcome and performance, don't think I'll do many journeys like this, more local trips using EV mode wherever possible.
 
steverally said:
Well just returned from my trip and thought I'd update you with results.

Thanks to Ecotrictiy and traffic delays on the motorway my plans to top up at motorway services fell by the way. I started from home, Pontefract, West Yorks showing a range of 29 miles EV, drove down the A1 to Peterborough Services (mpg showing 70) and managed to get a 'free' rapid charge, range back up to 20 miles. Back on A1 only to find access to A14/M11 closed after sitting in queue for 90 minutes, that killed of any idea of rapid charges at Cambridge or Birch hanger services, so carried on down A1 to M25 (South Minns). Was running late so no more stops until I got to my destination at Lewes, near Brighton, went via M25, Dartford, M23.

Had four days running around area, no chance to charge anywhere, other than hit the charge button a couple of times putting in 10 miles range on both occasions, no charging even at destination.

Set off back via M25, M40, M42, M6 toll, M6 back to Manchester, (no charges on way, stopped at Oxford & Stafford services but Ecotricty had beaten me to it and was not paying their fees. Managed a full charge in Manchester before travelling back to Pontefract via M62.

Whilst on motorways, dual carriageways travelled between 60 - 65mph, did not use 'save' but on some of the up hills ran in 'charge ' mode, rest of time just in normal letting car do its own thing, ran A/C very occasionally, just to cool car then switched off with windows open.

Travelled 721 miles overall and after two petrol fill ups around 65 litres total, recorded 48 mpg.

Overall very pleased with outcome and performance, don't think I'll do many journeys like this, more local trips using EV mode wherever possible.
Sounds like a good outcome to me. People worry about running the air con but I was led to believe running with the windows open has a similar effect on mpg?
 
steverally said:
Well just returned from my trip and thought I'd update you with results.

...........Travelled 721 miles overall and after two petrol fill ups around 65 litres total, recorded 48 mpg.............

Overall very pleased with outcome and performance, don't think I'll do many journeys like this, more local trips using EV mode wherever possible.

That's excellent!

I've used the aircon a fair bit recently and I have to say, on the basis of casual observation rather than scientific measurement and analysis, I'm not convinced it uses that much juice.

I also use 'charge' quite a lot after the drive battery has depleted and after the engine has started and notice that often I can get 5 miles EV range back in as many minutes.

If I know the road I'm using I try to ensure that I don't get to zero EV range if I know that I can soon use a descent to coast so use 'save' or charge to get something useable in the drive battery whilst the engine is running anyway so that when the downslope presents I can immediately kill 'save' or 'charge' and stop the engine for the coast rather than coasting downhill with the engine running.

Good game, good game :)

JimB
 
Goodshot said:
steverally said:
People worry about running the air con but I was led to believe running with the windows open has a similar effect on mpg?

Just to clarify, I ran A/C whilst sat in queue on A1 and when I did I closed all the windows to get a real 'chill' effect. When moving had windows open and NO A/C.
 
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