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Aues524

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
9
Hi, everyone, I have been driving PHEV for one year , some questions about PHEV SAWC want to know.
1 , we knew that PHEV has 2 motors in each axle, no center differential.and PHEV is a real time AWD . So how PHEV solve wheel speed between front and rear when turning?
2, lancer evo has complete version SAWC which is AFD(active distribute torque between front wheel),+ACD(active distribute torque between axle) +AYC (active distribute torque between rear wheel). Old diesel outlander has AFD +ACD,at least can active distribute torque between the front axle, but PHEV has nothing about “active “ , it means Old outlander get better 4WD system than PHEV?
3,PHEV twin motor SAWC seems like high technology, but it’s good drive on snow? Anyone share some experience?
4, Should I use 4WD lock when I drive in snow? Would be help diagonal off-road?
 
Aues524 said:
1 , we knew that PHEV has 2 motors in each axle, no center differential.and PHEV is a real time AWD . So how PHEV solve wheel speed between front and rear when turning?
Click to expand...
There is no center diff, that is true. But there is no need for a center diff, as there is no mechanical connection between front and rear axle at all. They can spin completely independently. So, the problem you refer to is non-existent.
 
Some comments below, but most importantly there are a number of posts on this forum dealing with the 4WD behaviour of the car, so use search.

1 Hmm, The car has 2 motors, one on each axle. Otherwise see Ankos correct comment
2 See other posts. But all comes down to what you are gong to use the car for. Serious offroad; get a car with 3 difflocks and ground clearance. Rallye; get the lancer Evo WRC whatever. Softroad and hauling a boat from a ramp; PHEV works great AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT CROSSAXLE.
3 Well, I've been driving in snow and step one is to get REALLY GOOD TYRES. But that is the same on all cars. PHEV is quite good as it has even weight distribution on the tyres. SAWC is great to counter sliding but turn AntiSpin OFF in deep snow.
4 the 4WD Lock is useful at low speed but not a magic button. You need to play around in safe conditions to find out. And it will not help crossaxling.

And if there is deep snow (more than 30 cm) you shall have Charge on so there is no delay when you need full power. On Youtube there is a video of a Finnish Rallye driver playing with the PHEV in deep snow. Charge ON, 4WD on, AntiSpin off.
 
The cross-axle problem only exists for the first version. Newer versions use ABS to lock spinning crossaxled wheels.
It would have been nice if Mitsubishi had updated the first ones as well... :(

I happened to be discussing this subject just this week with the off-road expert at my local Mitsubishi dealer.
 
Steepndeep said:
Some comments below, but most importantly there are a number of posts on this forum dealing with the 4WD behaviour of the car, so use search.

1 Hmm, The car has 2 motors, one on each axle. Otherwise see Ankos correct comment
2 See other posts. But all comes down to what you are gong to use the car for. Serious offroad; get a car with 3 difflocks and ground clearance. Rallye; get the lancer Evo WRC whatever. Softroad and hauling a boat from a ramp; PHEV works great AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT CROSSAXLE.
3 Well, I've been driving in snow and step one is to get REALLY GOOD TYRES. But that is the same on all cars. PHEV is quite good as it has even weight distribution on the tyres. SAWC is great to counter sliding but turn AntiSpin OFF in deep snow.
4 the 4WD Lock is useful at low speed but not a magic button. You need to play around in safe conditions to find out. And it will not help crossaxling.

And if there is deep snow (more than 30 cm) you shall have Charge on so there is no delay
when you need full power. On Youtube there is a video of a Finnish Rallye driver playing with the PHEV in deep snow. Charge ON, 4WD on, AntiSpin off.
Click to expand...

How to turn off Antispinn? You means ASC?
and when deriving on mild snow should I use char ? Or save ? Or ev?
 
jaapv said:
The cross-axle problem only exists for the first version. Newer versions use ABS to lock spinning crossaxled wheels.
It would have been nice if Mitsubishi had updated the first ones as well... :(

I happened to be discussing this subject just this week with the off-road expert at my local Mitsubishi dealer.
Click to expand...
New version? I bought it in Nov 2016, they told me that is 2017version , it has EV button and electric hand brake.
https://youtu.be/d1WO9x_laiU this is old version PHEV some thing like 2014 .At 2:29 , ABs lock wheel spinn.
https://youtu.be/jTJ6-j7xqeg This is 2017 ver’ at 6:06. Wheel spinn ...

How do you know about new version use ABS to lock spinn? Can you share the link? Many thanks
 
anko said:
Aues524 said:
1 , we knew that PHEV has 2 motors in each axle, no center differential.and PHEV is a real time AWD . So how PHEV solve wheel speed between front and rear when turning?
Click to expand...
There is no center diff, that is true. But there is no need for a center diff, as there is no mechanical connection between front and rear axle at all. They can spin completely independently. So, the problem you refer to is non-existent.
Click to expand...

I don’t think so,for example when car turn right and you keep throttle, more torque will distribute to right wheel by open differential, when turning , right side wheel of front axle driven distance is different rear,as a real time 4WD system the rear motor will keep working. traditional 4WD had center differential to “absorb” different wheel speed between front and rear, if not the front wheel will "conflict“ with rear. but what about PHEV?
 
The difference is that the normal 4WD has only one power source. That makes the centre differential necessary as the single engine must be able to drive front and rear at different torque and/or speed. However, as the PHEV has both a front and rear motor that are not mechanically connected, there is no need.
Compare the Citroen 2CV Sahara. Two engines, no central differential.
 
Aues524 said:
but what about PHEV?
Click to expand...
Imagine, front wheels are on ice and rear wheels are on tarmac and you hit the throttle. What will happen? Exactly, front motor + front wheels start spinning very fast and rear motor + rear wheels slowly start to move the car. Front wheels and rear wheels will spin at different speeds (until electronic counter measures kick in). What would be the problem?

Same when you make a turn. Why would the front wheels not be able to spin faster than the rear wheels? Same amount of power from the front motor is used to travel at a faster pace (in comparison to rear), so the force on the road will be less (compared to rear). But that's all, if you ask me.
 
anko said:
Aues524 said:
but what about PHEV?
Click to expand...
Imagine, front wheels are on ice and rear wheels are on tarmac and you hit the throttle. What will happen? Exactly, front motor + front wheels start spinning very fast and rear motor + rear wheels slowly start to move the car. Front wheels and rear wheels will spin at different speeds (until electronic counter measures kick in). What would be the problem?

Same when you make a turn. Why would the front wheels not be able to spin faster than the rear wheels? Same amount of power from the front motor is used to travel at a faster pace (in comparison to rear), so the force on the road will be less (compared to rear). But that's all, if you ask me.
Click to expand...
anko said:
Aues524 said:
but what about PHEV?
Click to expand...
Imagine, front wheels are on ice and rear wheels are on tarmac and you hit the throttle. What will happen? Exactly, front motor + front wheels start spinning very fast and rear motor + rear wheels slowly start to move the car. Front wheels and rear wheels will spin at different speeds (until electronic counter measures kick in). What would be the problem?

Same when you make a turn. Why would the front wheels not be able to spin faster than the rear wheels? Same amount of power from the front motor is used to travel at a faster pace (in comparison to rear), so the force on the road will be less (compared to rear). But that's all, if you ask me.
Click to expand...

in that situation you said , exactly right. But in other situation, what about the front and rear wheels are both in tarmc, rear wheels has 12 of turns, front wheel only 2 of turns.(137nm front motor, 190nm rear motor) What would be happen? The rear wheels +motor will push the front wheels+motor, so why battery send power to front?and the battery need more power to rear motor, and as we knew that PHEV more like a front driving car.
In another situation, the car turning on ice road, front wheels out of turn,in tarmac,the rear yet, rear wheels still spinn in icy, what would be happen? I think the car will under steering or over steering （because of rear wheels spinn, you never know about torque distribution to left or right by open differential in icy.)
 
Aues524 said:
in that situation you said , exactly right. But in other situation, what about the front and rear wheels are both in tarmc, rear wheels has 12 of turns, front wheel only 2 of turns.(137nm front motor, 190nm rear motor) What would be happen? The rear wheels +motor will push the front wheels+motor, so why battery send power to front?and the battery need more power to rear motor, and as we knew that PHEV more like a front driving car.
In another situation, the car turning on ice road, front wheels out of turn,in tarmac,the rear yet, rear wheels still spinn in icy, what would be happen? I think the car will under steering or over steering （because of rear wheels spinn, you never know about torque distribution to left or right by open differential in icy.)
Click to expand...
I find it very difficult to understand what you are saying, but one remark:

Imagine two persons pushing the same car. One person being a bit stronger than the other. The stronger person is doing more work, but that does not mean he is pushing the other person. The other person is still pushing the car.
 
Some quick and clear advice please. In about 1.5 hours I am going to tow about 1300kg up a steep narrow road which was covered in ice this morning. It is a 2014 car.
I am thinking I need to use:
1. Charge
2. Not eco
3. 4wd lock
4. Turn off asc

There is a sharp icy corner at the bottom of the hill so I will have to start pretty much from s standstill.

Any other advice. I am really worried about whether I will get up it and I have a horse on the back.
Tia.
 
I had a quick read of the manual and decided against 4wd lock and turning asc off. Car did great. Such a relief. Much of the ice had melted.
 
Hypermiler said:
I had a quick read of the manual and decided against 4wd lock and turning asc off. Car did great. Such a relief. Much of the ice had melted.
Click to expand...


I assume that PHEV has different ECUs ，depends on what country you are .
https://youtu.be/H_imGaSZ1B8
He is not lucky like you. I hope he can join this discuss. He was disappointed with PHEV
 
anko said:
Aues524 said:
in that situation you said , exactly right. But in other situation, what about the front and rear wheels are both in tarmc, rear wheels has 12 of turns, front wheel only 2 of turns.(137nm front motor, 190nm rear motor) What would be happen? The rear wheels +motor will push the front wheels+motor, so why battery send power to front?and the battery need more power to rear motor, and as we knew that PHEV more like a front driving car.
In another situation, the car turning on ice road, front wheels out of turn,in tarmac,the rear yet, rear wheels still spinn in icy, what would be happen? I think the car will under steering or over steering （because of rear wheels spinn, you never know about torque distribution to left or right by open differential in icy.)
Click to expand...
I find it very difficult to understand what you are saying, but one remark:

Imagine two persons pushing the same car. One person being a bit stronger than the other. The stronger person is doing more work, but that does not mean he is pushing the other person. The other person is still pushing the car.
Click to expand...

I’m so sorry about my bad English..
I try to explain: in some situations, one person pull the car it’s more easy. Because of, at least when you turning on icy road, you don’t want another person to push you,

I’m so interested with PHEV 4WD system, this is my first car with twin motor 4WD system, so different with traditional 4WD, want to konw which one is better. I knew PHEV is not a car use to off-road, but how about road performance, I really mean icy road performance, it’s very important for me !!
 
Aues524 said:
I’m so sorry about my bad English.
Click to expand...
Haha. Don't worry about it. You English is probably better much than my <replace with your own language>. Or that of many others. ;-)

Aues524 said:
I try to explain: in some situations, one person pull the car it’s more easy. Because of, at least when you turning on icy road, you don’t want another person to push you
Click to expand...
So, you are saying in icy conditions you prefer front wheel drive over rear wheel drive? I think many will agree with you. A few will not.

Aues524 said:
I really mean icy road performance, it’s very important for me !!
Click to expand...
I have no significant experience in that area, but those that do seem to say it does real well, as long as you equip it with proper winter tires.
 

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