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jaapv said:
Am I correct in saying that the effect of B0 is small when running electrically, and maybe even negative when the ICE is charging?
Effect on what, compared to what and under which circumstances? ;)

Or did you mean: the positive effect on economy of B0 over other B modes is limited, provided you have a decent driving style?
 
anko said:
...

When lifting the go-pedal in B1+, the ICE keeps running but stops charging the battery. It uses just enough fuel to keep itself running. It will not slow down the car, but there is no useful output either. Fuel efficiency is 0% at these times.

I'm surprised that you think it is that deterministic! As you know, I spend a lot of time running in either "Save" or "Charge" and the operation of the petrol engine does not see to be such a black and white thing to me. That said, I have been surprised to see it running the engine without making obvious use of the power output at times.
 
P.S. I do think that there is poor implementation of the hysteresis cycle - it is not uncommon to have the car stationary in "Save" mode with the engine running, the gauge showing that it is charging the battery, but no obvious increase in charge level. Under those circumstances, I will usually briefly cancel Save so that the engine stops, resetting the target charge level.
 
anko said:
From what I was told by Mitsubishi distributor in the Netherlands (and what matches my own findings), B level translates into a target deceleration. B5 would result in 0.11 G or 1 m/s2 deceleration. The BMU may prevent this as the max charge current is restricted more or less when the battery SOC is more than 50% (real).

I have a near real time monitor for fuel consumption, engine load and battery (dis)charge power. I have never seen a correlation between these values and the B setting. I will double check on the next occasion.

On the other hand, I have noticed that when coasting in B1 or higher (if you want to call that coasting) then engine starts to idle but still consumes fuel where it continues to charge the battery when in B0.

Anko .. you have been the one that notice first :cool:

Run at 100km/h .. with B0 .. and use the brake pedal as hard as you wish .. and the max recharge show on the clock is half of doing the same having B5

Definitely B0 to B5 dictated not only the automatic deceleration .. but also the max level of battery recharge (under regen brake)

For what I notice .. driving at B0 in charge mode it take forever to gain some EV range ... doing the same but in B3 it take much less time
 
maby said:
anko said:
...

When lifting the go-pedal in B1+, the ICE keeps running but stops charging the battery. It uses just enough fuel to keep itself running. It will not slow down the car, but there is no useful output either. Fuel efficiency is 0% at these times.

I'm surprised that you think it is that deterministic! As you know, I spend a lot of time running in either "Save" or "Charge" and the operation of the petrol engine does not see to be such a black and white thing to me. That said, I have been surprised to see it running the engine without making obvious use of the power output at times.
Well, I've spent a lot of time looking at my instruments in an attempt to optimise power regen while towing my caravan. The objective then is to keep as much SOC, rather than to run as efficient as possible.

What I have noticed over and over is that, when lifting the gas pedal in B1 or more, the engine runs idle as described. When lifting the gas pedal in B0, the engine / generator combo will produce as much power as the battery is willing to accept (up to 24-ish kW on an empty battery). This is very reproducible. Same thing you can see with CC: if you simply cancel CC in order to slow down a bit for upcoming traffic, the effect is the same as lifting the gas pedal in B2: engine runs idle with no regen.

Now, when you switch to B0, nothing happens. But briefly tap on the gas pedal and the ICE starts generating power again. Briefly hit the brakes or select a higher B level and regeneration immediately stops. But the ICO continues to run. Be aware : your dashboard will not reveal this! Switch back to B0 and regeneration only continues after a short tap on the gas pedal. This can be repeated over and over.
 
anko said:
jaapv said:
Am I correct in saying that the effect of B0 is small when running electrically, and maybe even negative when the ICE is charging?
Effect on what, compared to what and under which circumstances? ;)

Or did you mean: the positive effect on economy of B0 over other B modes is limited, provided you have a decent driving style?
Yes. What else?
 
elm70 said:
Anko .. you have been the one that notice first :cool:
Agreed.

elm70 said:
Run at 100km/h .. with B0 .. and use the brake pedal as hard as you wish .. and the max recharge show on the clock is half of doing the same having B5
Agreed. Although I have a harder time reproducing this today, maybe because my battery has aged? Max power in in B5 + brake pedal seems not nearly as much as it used to be.

elm70 said:
Definitely B0 to B5 dictated not only the automatic deceleration .. but also the max level of battery recharge (under regen brake)
Agreed. But as a consequence of the previous. Not necessarily as a design.

elm70 said:
For what I notice .. driving at B0 in charge mode it take forever to gain some EV range ... doing the same but in B3 it take much less time
Again, I have never seen differences in charging speed depending on B level (other than those caused by SOC and load conditions). But I will check again.
 
anko said:
elm70 said:
Run at 100km/h .. with B0 .. and use the brake pedal as hard as you wish .. and the max recharge show on the clock is half of doing the same having B5
Agreed. Although I have a harder time reproducing this today, maybe because my battery has aged? Max power in in B5 + brake pedal seems not nearly as much as it used to be.

On my car I still see a big difference between B0 and B5 on the recharge level ... using B5 I can easily get the full regen level on the dash ... while in B0 and breaking as hard as I which .. I never get more then half of it

If your car does not behave any more like this , it may be due to high IR of battery and this may prevent to recharge at high speed your battery .. anyhow ... you will not be able to notice any difference in charge mode too.

Due to your comment on driving on B5 .. and your battery degradation ... I did change my driving style .. in EV mode I'm always driving in B0 .. if I need to slowly slow down .. instead of brake pedal I switch to B1 up to B5 ... but ... if I need to press also the brake pedal I make sure I never use more then B2 .. normally when I press on the brake pedal on the same time I switch to B0

99% of my time I have enough EV range for my need .. I don't want to risk to wear the main battery using B5 .. pushing over 35kw for few instants or seconds.

Interesting enough driving in B0 in EV mode does improve my leaf score on the ECO mode display
 
elm70 said:
If your car does not behave any more like this , it may be due to high IR of battery and this may prevent to recharge at high speed your battery .. anyhow ... you will not be able to notice any difference in charge mode too.
Even when I indeed see less regen in B5 + brakes compared to earlier, the amounts of regen power I've seen before are much much higher than you would ever see from the generator. Even when my battery is restricted due to higher IR, I doubt it will be so bad that it would effectively reduce max generator power.
 
Just did a short check in the way home.

Regen in B5 with no brakes at 80 km/h resulted in 32 kW. Traffic conditions during the short test did not really allow me to hit the brakes at 80 km/h ;-)

Generated power in any B setting was not very constant due to windy conditions. Varying between 6 and 11 kW. So far less than normal regen in B5. Also fuel consumption was very constant and totally independent of B setting. About 11.0 l/100km. To me this means that the amount of power generated by the generator does not depend on the B-setting, but only on driving conditions.
 
The Audi is proving very expensive to run, hence looking for a better alternative. With all the hype on electric and hybrids I just wondered how practical it would be and how much savings I could make on the running costs.
 
anko said:
Just did a short check in the way home.

Regen in B5 with no brakes at 80 km/h resulted in 32 kW. Traffic conditions during the short test did not really allow me to hit the brakes at 80 km/h ;-)

Generated power in any B setting was not very constant due to windy conditions. Varying between 6 and 11 kW. So far less than normal regen in B5. Also fuel consumption was very constant and totally independent of B setting. About 11.0 l/100km. To me this means that the amount of power generated by the generator does not depend on the B-setting, but only on driving conditions.

It could be my imagination that B setting have an impact on the recharging speed.

But I can't explain why driving in B0 mode with charge pressed I got 9.5l/100km for multiple days
And when I move to B3 I got 7.5l/100km .. and I was driving even faster
Driving style was having charge all the time on, unless I have gain enough range for drive more then 10km in EV mode or more then what was needed for arrive at destination and have few km EV range left ... personally I don't believe much on the "short" charge-discharge cycle that auto mode does when charge is not pressed

In both cases under brake, I was always switching to B0
This was done during the 3 weeks that I had no access to the charger for my PHEV

The simple test is to have 50% or even less battery SOC .. press charge ... set B0 ... and have the car standing still (so with brake pedal pressed and motor running, if car is in P ... I guess it goes back to B2) .. and use EvBatMon or similar for check the ICE RPM .. and then in same condition set B5 and verify ... I believe even without EvBatMon, it should be sounding different the engine, since it should be almost double power for the ICE in B5 then on B0

Also another hint that made me believe on B setting on charging efficiency ... it is the fact that when cruise control is enabled, B0 and B1 are not allowed
 
elm70 said:
it is the fact that when cruise control is enabled, B0 and B1 are not allowed

I would have thought that is more about giving cruise control the ability to keep the steady speed on downhill sections. In an ICE care, you get the engine breaking but obviously in the phev this is absent.
 
Lance said:
elm70 said:
it is the fact that when cruise control is enabled, B0 and B1 are not allowed

I would have thought that is more about giving cruise control the ability to keep the steady speed on downhill sections. In an ICE care, you get the engine breaking but obviously in the phev this is absent.

Quite true. In fact, the selected "B" level is the maximum braking that the non-adaptive cruise control will ever apply to slow the car down. I drive on CC most of the time and almost got caught out the first time I entered my home town which is approached down a long, straight, moderately steep hill with speed cameras near the bottom. I had the car set to the default "B2" level and it started to run away down the hill. I have to turn it up to B5 in order to keep within the speed limit on the way down. The same applies to the speed limiter - driving around Southampton, I always have it set to 30mph (following the receipt of a speeding ticket last year) - but there is a downhill I have to cross frequently and it will run away unless I have it set to B5.
 
Hi Folks,

Maybe this has been discussed but I said I would put up my details.

I'm looking at purchasing a PHEV for my wife and myself at the weekends.
We want a bigger vehicle for the dropping kids to the creche/childminder and all the cr#p they have at the weekends etc. Buggies/bikes etc
Also it would be nice to have a bigger vehicle :D

I have spotted and test drove a car already in Ireland:
Year: 2015
Spec: GX 4HS
Country of Origin: UK Import
Warranty: 2 years (Mitsubishi Cover)

My wife has to test drive it yet.

Weekday Commute:

She has a daily commute of 20km (10 out and 10 back) - 100Km a week

So I'm thinking this car is ideal, as She can charge at home every 2nd night.
I have an outside 3 pin plug already on the house, so not thinking of getting a charger outlet fitted. it takes 8hrs correct?

Cost of my unit rate is €0.19
What would be the cost to charge from flat per charge?

Weekends:
On the weekends, it will be city driving mostly (20K a day) with every month a trip of 114Km each way (90Km motorway driving).
Quick Charge Point Available here for free (80%) and possibly overnight free at the end point.

Summer time a trip of 70Km one way, every weekend with free charging there when in situ.
5-10km driving a day on the weekend. Beach/shops etc.
Prob no cost here also as charging is free.

Thoughts:
Im thinking its an ideal fit and the only major cost will be the long trip of 114km.

Buying the car:
What do i need to ask the dealer?
- Car watch outs
- Battery Query (Is there a test to check the battery or cert
- Servicing (what is the recomended service interval and approx cost)

Sorry for the long detail but i think its an ideal suit for us.
I've seen lots on conserving Battery but it looks like i should be ok.

Any thoughts comments would be great.

Will
 
1. Better to charge every night. 40 km is pushing it and you won't make it in winter
2 cost: about 1.80€
3. Don't buy a car without a dealer battery report. There are no specific weak points.
4. Over here the service interval is 20.000 km and about 300€ excluding oil etc.
 
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