2019 Outlander PHEV reviews and what we know

ChrisMiller said:

Exactly, Rob, if you insist on a full-size electric vehicle, then the Outlander is an attractive option - throw in government incentives for company vehicles on top, and it becomes almost a no-brainer. But take those incentives away and I'm left wondering whether spending an extra £5k or settling for a (slightly) inferior vehicle by opting for a PHEV is a good choice just to 'save the planet' (and that's assuming you believe that EVs actually reduce CO2 emissions - even if their electricity comes from solar panels or windmills, those still have to be manufactured somewhere). Looking purely financially, I reckon with my mileage patterns, I save around £6-700 a year on petrol and road tax, which doesn't really justify a £5k spend. YMMV, as they say.

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I used to spend $4000-5000 pa on fuel.

Buying a new phev at $65k didnt look worthwhile, but mine was $32k and I will save $3k+ a year on fuel, cost to upgrade from my previous car will be paid back in 3 years plus I get to be smug on the environment and drive a better car.

All interesting stuff but it is still basically the same car as my 2014 with only marginal improvements.
A 60 mile electric range, new body and better interior would get my attention but not this.

gobiman said:

A 60 mile electric range, new body and better interior would get my attention but not this.

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Extra batteries would take up more space, add weight and increase cost. I'm sure EV manufacturers look closely at statistics on how far the average car journey is (in the UK <10 miles). Doubling the electric range of the PHEV would add a lot of negatives for little benefit most of the time. Let's face it, if you're a road warrior doing 100+ miles a day, this probably isn't the vehicle you're looking for (except for the tax breaks ).

The technology in the PHEV is at least six years old - it came out in 2012?
My point was that perhaps battery technology had improved sufficiently so that for broadly the same size/weight, the capacity/range would at least double.
Throw in a new body, better interior and updated electronics (satnav etc) and I'd be off to trade-in my 2014.
Perhaps we are not quite there yet.

gobiman said:

My point was that perhaps battery technology had improved sufficiently so that for broadly the same size/weight, the capacity/range would at least double.

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I don't think the energy density of batteries has doubled in the last 6 years. Maybe a 20% improvement, which is what we've got ...

ChrisMiller said:

gobiman said:

My point was that perhaps battery technology had improved sufficiently so that for broadly the same size/weight, the capacity/range would at least double.

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I don't think the energy density of batteries has doubled in the last 6 years. Maybe a 20% improvement, which is what we've got ...

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Teslas new 2170 cells have 50% more energy density than the model S cells! But few are making that much progress and the more expensive cells will go into higher price full BEV cars.

There are many so-called reviews of the 2019 Mitsubishi Outlander popping up on the net, yet most of them are just regurgitation of the specs with very little if any real-life driving experience. I've also noticed most use the same pictures too, very few of them are unique driving test pictures. If you see any worthwhile and legit driving tests of the 2019 model, please let me know and I'll update the OP, thanks.

10 years ago, when we were looking for a compact SUV, Outlander has been in my radar already. We ended up buying RAV4. I was planing to change my car only around end of this year and there was a very good chance to be the PHEV MY 2019.

An accident, which totaled my Camry, had me anticipate the plan. So we took ownership of a white MY2018. My rational was:
1 - we need a car, now;
2 - Factory rebate that I don’t think there will be any for the MY2019;
3 - after so many delays, we still don’t know if the MY 2019 in the US is the same version as shown in Europe.

A month later, we have 800miles and just 6 gallons of gas. I’ve probably only driven 50 miles. So yes, my wife likes the car so far. And if everything goes as planned, I will have my Red PHEV MY 2019 sooner than later.

Tai

Tai626 said:

10 years ago, when we were looking for a compact SUV, Outlander has been in my radar already. We ended up buying RAV4. I was planing to change my car only around end of this year and there was a very good chance to be the PHEV MY 2019.

An accident, which totaled my Camry, had me anticipate the plan. So we took ownership of a white MY2018. My rational was:
1 - we need a car, now;
2 - Factory rebate that I don’t think there will be any for the MY2019;
3 - after so many delays, we still don’t know if the MY 2019 in the US is the same version as shown in Europe.

A month later, we have 800miles and just 6 gallons of gas. I’ve probably only driven 50 miles. So yes, my wife likes the car so far. And if everything goes as planned, I will have my Red PHEV MY 2019 sooner than later.

Tai

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Tai, I would be very interested to hear your impressions of MY2018 versus MY2019 when you've lived with both of them, with or without the powertrain updates (hopefully USA gets the full update, but who knows at this point).

gobiman said:

All interesting stuff but it is still basically the same car as my 2014 with only marginal improvements.
A 60 mile electric range, new body and better interior would get my attention but not this.

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Of course the PHEV is a global car and in the UK our tax system is unique to us. But considering the strong sales here, it would have been worth them producing a UK version with a 40 mile range which should be feasible.

The reason being that from 2020/21 company car tax here for hybrids will not only be determined by the official CO2 output but in combination with its EV range. A 40 mile range would drop it a whole 4% down from 12% to 8%. As most petrol and diesel vehicles will be hitting horrendous rates by then the PHEV would look amazingly attractive, not far from the 5% it was at when launched.

BobEngineer said:

gobiman said:

All interesting stuff but it is still basically the same car as my 2014 with only marginal improvements.
A 60 mile electric range, new body and better interior would get my attention but not this.

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Of course the PHEV is a global car and in the UK our tax system is unique to us. But considering the strong sales here, it would have been worth them producing a UK version with a 40 mile range which should be feasible.

The reason being that from 2020/21 company car tax here for hybrids will not only be determined by the official CO2 output but in combination with its EV range. A 40 mile range would drop it a whole 4% down from 12% to 8%. As most petrol and diesel vehicles will be hitting horrendous rates by then the PHEV would look amazingly attractive, not far from the 5% it was at when launched.

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In the US, the federal tax credit towards plug-ins and EV is based solely on the battery capacity, maxing out at $7500. Currently the 2018 Outlander PHEV is at $5,836, meaning just for the US market, they could increase the battery capacity until reaching that $7,500 Combined with dealer and state discounts, the lowest USA trim (they call it the "SEL" model) would be $35,000 retail - $7,000 dealer discount - $5,836 federal credit - $1,500 state credit = no-brainer purchase... but I'm still waiting for the 2019 model.

Car Magazine review out: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mitsubishi/outlander-phev

Some new information from that review:
- the tires have been upgraded from Toyo brand to Yokohama brand
- the "new" 2.4L ICE automatically switches between Otto and Atkinson cycle
- the ICE tranny is a fixed-gear built by GKN, it is not a CVT as some sources claim
- 4 hours to charge using standard outlet with the larger battery, up 30 minutes versus the smaller battery

Woodman411 said:

- 4 hours to charge using standard outlet with the larger battery, up 30 minutes versus the smaller battery

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The current model takes 3.5 hours to charge (from 'empty') using a 4kW (16A in the UK) outlet, so presumably this is what is being referred to as a 'standard plug' in the article, although it isn't 'standard' and needs to be specially fitted. Charging from a UK standard (3kW 13A) domestic outlet takes 5 hours currently, which I imagine will rise to 6. Not that this is much of a problem, most such charging takes place overnight (or during the working day, if you're lucky enough to be able to charge at work) so it would be unusual to have 5 hours available for charging, but not 6.

ChrisMiller said:

Woodman411 said:

- 4 hours to charge using standard outlet with the larger battery, up 30 minutes versus the smaller battery

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The current model takes 3.5 hours to charge (from 'empty') using a 4kW (16A in the UK) outlet, so presumably this is what is being referred to as a 'standard plug' in the article, although it isn't 'standard' and needs to be specially fitted. Charging from a UK standard (3kW 13A) domestic outlet takes 5 hours currently, which I imagine will rise to 6. Not that this is much of a problem, most such charging takes place overnight (or during the working day, if you're lucky enough to be able to charge at work) so it would be unusual to have 5 hours available for charging, but not 6.

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Thanks Chris, I'll take your word for it and update the OP.

There is a topic about the evse in the USA...
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3578

I am kind of knowing where it comes from:
The OEM evse for the Chevy Volt (Opel Ampera in Europe) Gen2 is UL certified for 110V and 12A. However, someone knowledgeable opened it and double checked all components and conclude that it can take 240V and 12A.
https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?218442-2016-Volt-120v-EVSE-is-L1-L2-Conversion-Capable

My evse is taking 8~9 hour to fully charge the MY2018. During the weekdays, it is tolerable for overnight charge but during the weekend, we wish it can charge faster! Here is the one I am buying soon:
https://amazing-e.com/

It will be $200 well spent, IMHO. Here is the justification:

1. Faster charging: 8hrs to 3hrs;
2. 240V is 5% ~ 10% more efficient than 120V;
3. Now we can take the OEM in the car, as a spare, and charging at in-laws.

When/if the MY2019 comes to the USA with the larger battery, we will have a 240V ready for it.

Tai

ChrisMiller said:

gobiman said:

My point was that perhaps battery technology had improved sufficiently so that for broadly the same size/weight, the capacity/range would at least double.

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I don't think the energy density of batteries has doubled in the last 6 years. Maybe a 20% improvement, which is what we've got ...

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Renault almost doubled the capacity of their Zoe battery from 22kWh to 41kWh in the same space in only 4 years

ThudnBlundr said:

Renault almost doubled the capacity of their Zoe battery from 22kWh to 41kWh in the same space in only 4 years

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Possibly so, but that does not reflect the overall trend in increasing energy density in batteries, which runs at a few percent per annum. Energy density is not the only factor EV manufacturers have to consider in choosing batteries for their vehicles.

To be clear, I'm sure it would be possible for Mitsubishi to have increased battery capacity by more than 20%. But there are downsides (increased weight, cost and longer charge times being the most obvious), while the benefits are slight in a PHEV (as opposed to a pure EV like the Zoe), because the average UK car 'trip' is less than 10 miles (probably similar for most European countries - Australia and North America probably not ). I doubt a PHEV with a 50 mile electric range, as opposed to 25 (practical) miles would attract enough extra purchasers to offset the other effects (and I bet the options were examined pretty carefully).

ChrisMiller said:

ThudnBlundr said:

Renault almost doubled the capacity of their Zoe battery from 22kWh to 41kWh in the same space in only 4 years

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Possibly so, but that does not reflect the overall trend in increasing energy density in batteries, which runs at a few percent per annum. Energy density is not the only factor EV manufacturers have to consider in choosing batteries for their vehicles.

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It runs at 7% per annum pretty consistently for now.

Tesla increased energy density by 50% with their new 2170 cells in the m3, thats from a 2012 model s, yes they are class leading but we could have 18kwh now rather than 12.

robdickinson said:

ChrisMiller said:

ThudnBlundr said:

Renault almost doubled the capacity of their Zoe battery from 22kWh to 41kWh in the same space in only 4 years

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Possibly so, but that does not reflect the overall trend in increasing energy density in batteries, which runs at a few percent per annum. Energy density is not the only factor EV manufacturers have to consider in choosing batteries for their vehicles.

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It runs at 7% per annum pretty consistently for now.

Tesla increased energy density by 50% with their new 2170 cells in the m3, thats from a 2012 model s, yes they are class leading but we could have 18kwh now rather than 12.

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Until the Boeing Dreamliner fires, I've never heard of GS Yuasa, I don't think they're at the forefront of battery technology. For the Renault Zoe 41kwh, the Wiki page does mention they partnered with LG Chem to develop the batteries, and we already know Tesla is primarily partnered with Panasonic, both happen to be the largest battery cell makers. If Mitsubishi did the same, perhaps we could see the bigger gains in capacity, but as ChrisMiller brings out, maybe there are other factors too, such as size/cost/roi-for-phev-versus-pureEV, etc.

View attachment Screen Shot 2018-06-26 at 9.58.18 PM.png

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/235323/lithium-batteries-top-manufacturers

Wired UK review out: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2019-review

One component they particularly criticize is the GKN eTransmission, and the overall tone of the review leans toward the negative.

Improved insulation against noise and vibration makes new Outlander PHEV a relaxing place to sit and it remains quiet at motorway speeds, so long as the driver goes easy on the throttle inputs. It's only the engine/gearbox combo that spoils the peace and tranquillity from inside, with the “Multimode eTransmission” occasionally holding on to gears for far too long and allowing a jarring, monotonous engine note to leak into the cabin.

We only experienced this when the engine was under particularly heavy loads, such as climbing steep hills or attempting to perform a quick overtraining manoeuvre, but it was unpleasant nonetheless.

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