Long Distance MPG

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I will try to top off using a 5 gallon fuel can...

Just for reference, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid has a range of 600+ miles/tank. And the Subaru Crosstrek PHEV, 480miles/tank. Probably at 60mph...The day I really want to increase the range/tank in Outlander, without lowering the speed, just have to look up how those “cannon ball” people do.

Look like it is easier to increase kWh to the batteries than gallons in the tank. Vide MY2019 in Europe.

Sorry, not really related to MPG...

Tai
 
I understand the intellectual pleasure in the challenge to get more fuel into the car than designed - much like me wanting extract the maximum EV (and "free" coasting) miles. However, is all the time spent faffing about when stopped, to extend time between fill-ups, worth it? At least I'm still moving when indulging my perversion. :oops: :lol:
 
I just tried the top-up-after-click method. I managed to squeeze an extra 2.9 litres in. And the car reeked of petrol for the next twenty km. Luckily I was not on solo-EV. Not advisable, nor very useful
 
greendwarf said:
I understand the intellectual pleasure in the challenge to get more fuel into the car than designed - much like me wanting extract the maximum EV (and "free" coasting) miles. However, is all the time spent faffing about when stopped, to extend time between fill-ups, worth it? At least I'm still moving when indulging my perversion. :oops: :lol:

So, think about the area between Gilroy, CA and Santa Clarita, CA as a sort of "no stop zone" where no gas stations exist. This isn't the case in reality, of course, but in practice, the gas prices there tend to be crappy compared to the prices in the urban areas, because the stations along I-5 know that there are a lot of travelers without a lot of options and that they don't have a lot of competition when people run low. The worst offenders are the stations in Grapevine, CA (right before the hill climb) and around the Nees Ave/Firebaugh exit, where there are only 1-2 stations. Prices there can be 50 cents to $1 above those in the urban areas. In Grapevine, it's the last place to fill up before climbing, and anyone who's low there really MUST fill up before going up the hill. But even in places like Kettleman City or Lost Hills, prices can be about 20-30 cents/gallon above those in the urban areas, which is why I simply do not patronize those stations, period.

In everyday driving, IF there were a station that was directly off my regular route AND had the best price, I would never top off. But, the best prices tend to be at stations that require at least a 5 mile roundtrip drive, which takes around 10-15 minutes total to make the round trip and fill up. Therefore, it's generally worth it for me to top off and get an extra 2.5-3.5 gallons in. The only time in the last few months when I did NOT top off was after arriving in Anaheim in late December, because I knew that after whatever minimal driving around Southern California I did, I'd have to top off again before leaving.

jaapv said:
I just tried the top-up-after-click method. I managed to squeeze an extra 2.9 litres in. And the car reeked of petrol for the next twenty km. Luckily I was not on solo-EV. Not advisable, nor very useful

I'm surprised that you only got an extra 2.9L in. You should be able to get at least an extra 7L in there, if not 8-10L. I think you probably didn't get to the point where the nozzle hole was sitting under the liquid level and the liquid level was draining at less than 1cm/minute.

I've never had the car smell like gas. I have had my hands smell like gas, which in turn makes the car smell like gas, IF I screw up and the gas spills out, and there's nowhere to wash my hands before I get back in the car. When you do this often, you get better at it. It took about 3-4 tries on my old car before I got the hang of it, and now, I rarely ever spill gas when topping off. I used to spill a lot more often when I tried the squeeze handle, wait for it to click off, then remove the nozzle and look into the filler cap method of topping off, prior to my friend telling me that I could get it to dispense, AND watch it at the same time, by simply pulling back the vapor recovery nozzle with one hand while operating the lever with the other.
 
Quite impossible. It was filled to the point of nearly spilling out. It may be that the newer model has a different tank. And i didn't spill.
 
I have just done 210 miles wakefield-preston-wiral-wakefield. One full tank of petrol and full charge in my my new 2018 PHEV 4H . Average 42.5 mpg and half a tank of petrol left.
 
There are a few points to note here, namely that petrol pumps here do not have the vapour recovery cover you talk about, and a brief look online shows that fuel pump nozzles in North America are significantly different to ours.

I tried this 'topping off' process when I filled up this afternoon.

My normal fill up method is to push the nozzle right in, pull the handle to maximum until it clicks off, I then count to 10 and pull the handle again until it clicks. Then I withdraw the nozzle until the large ring is resting on the outer edge of the filler tube and pull hard enough to start the pump, but keep this minimum flow going until the fuel clicks off. Using this method all the time, once in 87,000 miles, at an average of 34mpg I have managed to get 43l in the 45l tank.

I have used this method, at every fill up for the last 1.2million miles with petrol and diesel without incident. The only time it varies is in the summer when I know the car will be parked in the full sun almost straight away. To allow for fuel expansion I only go to the second click.

Today, the pertol station was relatively quiet, so I decided after my usual process was complete to wait 30 seconds, then hold the pump right at the very entrance of the filler neck and squeeze very gently. Over the next 3 minutes I got just under a litre of extra petrol in. For the last minute there was standing fuel in the thread that the cap locks in to and it didn't drop away at all.

With all respect to our American cousins, there is no way that amount of extra fuel can be forced into a UK (and I suspect European) spec car. I agree that my personal preference would be for a larger tank (by an extra 20l), but I fully understand that I am not really the kind of driver this car is aimed at and the reasons why this isn't possible.
 
There's GOT to be a different part number for the fuel tank on the European model or something like that. But I don't understand why Mitsu would do that in the first place.
 
For measuring fuel consumption, I don't mess with filling to full.
Instead I use the half full mark on the fuel gauge. I note the distance to the nearest 5miles as I pass the half-way mark and always fill a whole number of litres (easier to remember).
 
I use the empty fuel light to measure the mpg. Once light is on, I reset the odometer A (zero). Fill out 10 gallons within the reserve range. And then drive until the next light on. The Odometer A should give me a good number as mpg. Just need to move a decimal point to the left. Easier math, I suppose. Repeating again by resetting odometer.

It doesn’t work that well in the PHEV because it is harder to take SOC of batteries in consideration and I cannot charge batteries between fill ups...

For me, the “topping off” is just to get further in a longer trip. If I am driving alone, I only stop if I really have to. Better mpg and average speed? Just a little bit. Lower Gas price? Probably. Mostly it is to avoid potential dangerous situation. It is wired in my brain while driving in developing coutries. For safety, we try only stop in big gas stations along the road. Sometimes, even small cities are trap!

If I cannot get over this mental block, I predict adult dipper even with this small tank...

Tai
 
I tend to maintain a lower fuel tank level, say about a third or a quarter of a tank (or even less), unless I know I am going on a longer journey. Otherwise I could be driving around shorter EV range runs for weeks, maybe over a month, lugging around a full tank of fuel. This affects efficiency on ICE cars, so undoubtedly will with a PHEV.

I am now just over 3000 miles in on my 2019 4HS, I have done 66.41 miles for every gallon (UK) of unleaded put it. That's an equivalent mpg of 51.56 overall (when I take the cost of electricity used and how much unleaded that would have bought..).

Not bad at all for a car of this size, sure, but it will get better/worse the more EV/Unleaded miles I do. Currently, the above figures are 1791 miles on EV and 1209 miles on unleaded.
 
VillageIdiotDan said:
cornclose said:
I tend to maintain a lower fuel tank level

Durr, why have I never considered that. I'll do this too, thanks!
Clearly you don't know how aviation works. Name of the game in aviation is to get as little fuel in the plane as possible for each journey: only what's required, plus a reserve so that you can safely divert or go around if you have to. Anything extra is NOT loaded into the tank because it takes fuel to transport fuel. ;)

It's just that in cars, people don't normally do this because the penalty for increasing mass ratio isn't that severe, and the time it takes to refuel must also be considered. One key difference for planes is that they can ALWAYS refuel at their next destination, as airports have fuel pumps and tanks. But in a PHEV, if I were not burning much gasoline, I'd keep the fuel level low for another reason: to prevent it from going stale.
 
STS134 said:
Clearly you don't know how aviation works.

Damn, you got me :) Yeah, now you mention this, yes i knew this but I think i've been a bit slow to pick up on the opportunity to change approach in a PHEV. I guess it takes time having spent years not being so interested in range.

Regards,
Captain Dan! :)
 
The bonus for using the half way mark on the Outlander is that it’s clearly marked. Also, you don’t need to fill to the brim if you’re not using much petrol but only ahead of a long trip. Similarly, you don’t need to risk inconvenience (running out or being fleeced) by running to a low point before filling-up.
 
STS134 said:
Name of the game in aviation is to get as little fuel in the plane as possible for each journey: only what's required, plus a reserve so that you can safely divert or go around if you have to. Anything extra is NOT loaded into the tank because it takes fuel to transport fuel. ;)
That's probably true for most flights within the US, but in the rest of the world fuel prices can vary enough to make it worthwhile taking on additional 'cheap' fuel if you're flying to an 'expensive' destination (known as 'tankering'). It's not always a case of simply loading the minimum safe fuel (plus, of course, 'a ton for mum' :) ).
 
While true in theory, in practice it's not worth considering. In a commercial aircraft, the fuel is a huge proportion of the all-up weight on take-off: 170 tons with a max take-off weight of 440 tons or approximately 30%. In the PHEV a full tank of fuel weighs 33kg in a 1950kg (unladen) car, so the weight saving of ~15kg (or 0.7%) with half a tank isn't going to affect your economy in any measurable way.
 
It's not so much the (incremental) weight of the extra fuel you might add, but the age of it that matters.
You don't want it going stale so you want to keep it fresh by putting less in.
 
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