Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:45 pm 
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I'm looking to buy an Outlander PHEV this summer and will probably also buy a plug-in JuiceBox Pro 32 (mostly for getting a full charge for my commute home while I'm at work).

Does anyone have experience charging while camping? Good, bad, ugly?

In the US, newer campsites with power hookups will often have a 240v 50A (NEMA 14-50R) socket. This is great as an off the shelf EVSE should just plug in and charge an Outlander at the max Level 2 rate in about 3.5 hours. However most campsites typically have only 110v 15A (NEMA 5-15R) and 110v 30a (NEMA TT-30R) sockets.

Is the Outlander PHEV (MY2019-NA) able to make use of a 30a 110v source (assuming an EVSE that will advertise 30A from a 110v source)? If so how fast will this charge? (16A x 110v = ~1760W? --> 12kWh x 70% / 1760W = ~5hrs?)

Given that I'm an engineer experienced with power electronics and automated control systems, any thoughts about building a DIY OpenEVSE with a 110/220 step-up transformer in an effort to get 12A at 220v out of a 30A 110v campsite socket?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:11 pm 
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As the PHEV will pull less than 16 A / 240 V maximally using the standard charge socket, I doubt that you will have any problems. Charge time on a 16A charger will be about 3-3.5 hours, on the standard 10A control box that comes with the car about 4.5 hours. The maximum charge it can take is about 10 kWh, but it will only charge at the max power for a short while and then switch down to protect the battery. The car will never allow the full 12 kWh to be discharged, again to increase battery life.
Buying a more powerful charger serves no purpose. I don't know whether the USA version has a CHAdeMO socket, that will give you a quicker charge, but Mitsubishi warns that using it frequently will increase battery deterioration.
In Europe we don’t have 110V, only 240 V for domestic use, but for low-power outlets I have a switchable 6A/10A Ratio charger.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:28 am 
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jaapv wrote:
In Europe we don’t have 110V, only 240 V for domestic use...


jaapv -- Thanks for the info. And I understand about the upper and lower charge limits (cell voltages) to protect the longevity of the batteries. (Like I said I'm an engineer with experienced with power electronics and automated control systems.) But what I'm really looking for more on what the operational limits (amps) of the onboard charging module are when connected to a EVSE that only supplies 110v (aka Level 1).


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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:42 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I am not familiar with campsite but...

There are a couple of portable EVSE 220/110V 16A in the market. For example this exAeroVironment:
https://www.evchargesolutions.com/AeroV ... rddual.htm

In my limited experience as a Power product sales, a 3kW step up transformer is not very portable.

So my suggestion:
In newer campsite, charge at level 2.
Older one, charge at level 1 at 16A. If level 1 is too slow, fire up the engine and the battery will be charged in no time.

Tai

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:10 pm 
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TSayles wrote:
... In the US, newer campsites with power hookups will often have a 240v 50A (NEMA 14-50R) socket. This is great as an off the shelf EVSE should just plug in and charge an Outlander at the max Level 2 rate in about 3.5 hours. However most campsites typically have only 110v 15A (NEMA 5-15R) and 110v 30a (NEMA TT-30R) sockets...


If you aren't already aware of it, plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/) can show lots of RV campgrounds with 14-50s. Just enable the 14-50 filter. There are other RV-oriented sites, such as allstays, that can also show them by enabling the "50 amp" filter.

I don't have an Outlander PHEV (yet), so don't know if it supports greater than 12 amp charging at 120v. It is a good question though. The J-1772 Standard allows for up to 16 amp charging at 120v. However some EVs allow it (e.g., Teslas, many Leafs), and many don't. Tesla can go all the way to 24 amps. I have both a 5-20 adapter and a third-party (evseadapters) TT-30 adapter for my Tesla UMC. Both have proven to be very handy. If I buy an Outlander, that will be one of the first things I test.

And yes the U.S. version of the Outlander has a CHAdeMO capability.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:15 pm 
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wws wrote:
TSayles wrote:
... In the US, newer campsites with power hookups will often have a 240v 50A (NEMA 14-50R) socket. This is great as an off the shelf EVSE should just plug in and charge an Outlander at the max Level 2 rate in about 3.5 hours. However most campsites typically have only 110v 15A (NEMA 5-15R) and 110v 30a (NEMA TT-30R) sockets...


I don't have an Outlander PHEV (yet), so don't know if it supports greater than 12 amp charging at 120v. It is a good question though. The J-1772 Standard allows for up to 16 amp charging at 120v. However some EVs allow it (e.g., Teslas, many Leafs), and many don't. Tesla can go all the way to 24 amps. I have both a 5-20 adapter and a third-party (evseadapters) TT-30 adapter for my Tesla UMC. Both have proven to be very handy. If I buy an Outlander, that will be one of the first things I test.


I found a pdf of the U.S. version of the 2018 owners manual. On page 11-7 it says one can charge at up to 1.8 kW on 120v. That is 15 amps - which matches the 240v amperage spec. So if one had a 20 amp (16 continuous per the 80% rule) EVSE to mate to a 20 amp (NEMA 5-20) receptacle and circuit, it looks like you could get a couple extra MPH of charging.

For example I've been using a "JESLA", a Gen 1 Tesla UMC with a J-1772 plug on the end rather than a Tesla plug, with our Volt for the last several years. The UMCs have various adapters available for different receptacles, from 15 to 50 amps at both voltages, and automatically set the max current based on the specific adapter in use. One available adapter is a 5-20 which would support 16 amp charging at 120v. For a TT-30, one could buy pre-made adapters such as the Conntek 14103 ($5 from amazon) to plug in a 20 amp EVSE.

Still leaves open the general question of safely using some sort of transformer to go from 30 amp 120v TT-30 to 15 amp 240v.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:14 am 
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The in-car charging unit will not accept more than 16A.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:58 pm 
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jaapv wrote:
The in-car charging unit will not accept more than 16A.


Understood. But my question is what the chargers max is at 120v. A lot of EVs in North America limit 120v charging to 12 amps - even though they can draw 16 amps or higher on a 240v (or 208v) circuit. This is because common 120v household circuits are 15 amps with NEMA 5-15 receptacles. Per the 80% rule, one can only draw 12 amps continuously. The provided "charge cord" is a EVSE that only supports 12 amps to match the NEMA 5-15 receptacle that is on such circuits.

It seems like Mitsu has done the Right Thing to allow up to 16 amp charging at 120v.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:38 am 
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jaapv wrote:
The in-car charging unit will not accept more than 16A.

Sorry to be pedantic, but is that 16A at whatever voltage, or is maximum power actually the limiting factor? I'm not saying it's one or the other, but as a casual scientist, I'd have thought that power was the more crucial limiting factor. Happy to be corrected, though

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 Post subject: Re: Charging at US Campsites
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:59 pm 
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ThudnBlundr wrote:
jaapv wrote:
The in-car charging unit will not accept more than 16A.

Sorry to be pedantic, but is that 16A at whatever voltage, or is maximum power actually the limiting factor? I'm not saying it's one or the other, but as a casual scientist, I'd have thought that power was the more crucial limiting factor. Happy to be corrected, though


I downloaded a copy of the 2018 Owners Manual from https://carmanuals2.com/get/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2018-owner-s-manual-111847. It seems to be a North American version of the manual. On page 11-7 (page 446 in the pdf) it has a table showing "Maximum power consumption" of the charging system at 3.3kVa at 240v and 1.8kVa at 120v. This corresponds to 13.75 amps at 240v and 16 amps at 120v.

Most commercial and institutional L2 charging sites in North America are fed with 3-phase power. As such, the EV charging stations hooked up to such systems are often at 208v - rather than 240v found in residences. If the charger is power limited at that voltage, rather than current limited, this would get it close to 16 amps. Another thing to try...

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