Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Aussie Land
Thanks for your feedback guys.

I live on the coast, when I say hills, they are fairy short and not steep inclines, maybe 30 seconds 5˚.
Former owner lived in Brisbane, known for it's mud flats, no proper hills there either.
It is fairly hot there. Many days exceed 30˚C but from the near new looking condition this car is in, it even still smells like a new car, I am very sure it was kept in a garage mostly away from the heat of the very harsh sun there.

I have evidence that my car was in use for 4 years and 8 months. So at 76% SoH right now, in possibly 1 year it will not meet my daily requirements in EV mode, which is very disappointing.

I have been reading that Mitsubishi expects now 80,000km out of these batteries, no idea if this information is reliable.
But from what I have been researching, like 10% drop of SoH for the LEV50 after 700 FULL 100% cycles from an official technical report, this makes a lot of sense.

There is a theory that the LEV40 is a rated down LEV50 and should last longer but that does not make sense to me.
Both have 4.1V-2.75V for a full cycle. I would expect if you wanted to derate a larger capacity battery for longer service life you would reduce the
'usable' DoD. However the discharge graphs of the LEV40 seem to be kept a secret or I am just too stupid to find them.
Could somebody please post a link to the official report of the LEV40 with graphs?

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:59 pm
Posts: 23
Quote:
Brisbane, known for it's mud flats, no proper hills there either.


You should see the area I regularly visit around Ascot / Hamilton - short and very steep.


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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Aussie Land
Darkflow wrote:
Quote:
Brisbane, known for it's mud flats, no proper hills there either.


You should see the area I regularly visit around Ascot / Hamilton - short and very steep.


30m above sea level ...yeah rrright :)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... Queensland

Those ramps to get on and off the highway can be pretty steep too.

Very sad if the car is not designed for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 1787
But surely its a matter of physics - lifting a 2 ton car 30m uses more energy than pushing along on the flat and it will be the frequency that is more important than the occasional climb into mountains! And not many opportunities to climb even 30m in Holland other than in a multi-storey car park. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:16 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Port Macquarie
Does anyone have some log data they would like to share? I found the quality was best with in town driving where it passed through different discharge rates often. My temperatures have been 15°C to 25°C so comparable temperatures would be most useful but I have the discharge curves for colder temperatures ready.

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:16 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Port Macquarie
So I have tried a couple of times to log data while charging and both my OBD adaptors disconnect, so no luck there.

EDITED with latest data

Elm70 mentioned voltage at rest, mine was sitting at 305.8V after 2 hours at 25.4%.

My battery SoH dropped recently, it is now 76.6%, and this is reflected in charging with only 7.8kWh at the wall from this 25.4% SoC.

I noticed a few people are getting their batteries down below 3V after these resets, that would be great data to compare as you would be able to see the knee point to scale correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:28 pm
Posts: 11
I have a couple of DBCAM data points, this is with an immediately preceding Control Information and Estimated Capacity reset (i.e. 38SOH baseline). With just an Estimated Capacity reset (40Ah SOH) the SOC % values would be around 4-8pct points higher in this specific case.

T-12min: 18.4% 7Ah 292.3V 3.642Vmin 3.657Vmax 5kW load
T-8min: 16.1% 6.1Ah/1.8kWh 290V 3.591Vmin 3.616Vmax
T-5min: 12.6% 4.8Ah 280.4V 3.462 3.531 0.069Vdelta
T-2min: 10.3% 3.9Ah/1kWh 267.7V 3.240 3.391 0.151Vdelta
T-30sec: 2.937 3.276 0.339Vdelta
T-10sec: 8.7% 0.8kWh 250.4V 2.854 3.274 0.420Vdelta
charging started
T+5min: 3.438 3.534 0.096Vdelta

Notice the huge voltage drop on some cells during the last two minutes of discharge.


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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:16 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Port Macquarie
Thanks for the data points obiuquido144, that drops off really quickly at the end. If it still thought it had 0.8kWh left when it was empty, looks like there's closer to 35Ah left in your battery. What value did the DBCAM calculate after it charged?

The voltages you have are higher than the LEV50 curve at 10% SoC so would be very interested if you have any PHEVWatchdog logs after getting this procedure done.

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 Post subject: Re: Cell voltages during discharge - Log data wanted
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:28 pm
Posts: 11
34Ah natural degradation before everything.
DBCAM wrote 31.8Ah, but on first powerup after the DBCAM charge (after couple hours rest) the SOH was already bumped up to 32.3Ah. In the evening the same day after another charge the SOH jumped to 34.4Ah (this was after BMU Manual Write of around 60kAh and the usual ~1600 days, likely played a role).
Don't have logs yet, but this car now does around 30-35km typical EV range with 34soh. ICE with SOH reset to 38Ah first kicks in around 36km-40km at 3.7V/300V/31soc when driven gently around 60km/h.
I believe this car has some below-average cells whose voltage under load gets depressed quicker than the rest (the extreme of which was seen in the DBCAM numbers above), causing premature ICE kick ins e.g. when normally pulling off lights. And I believe this is also a reason why it doesn't respond much to Lindqvist/BMU resets - the voltage floor causes the ICE to kick in no matter what estimate SOC/SOH values are in the system.
If I get soc-voltage data from another DBCAM on this same car I will post them up for comparison.


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