Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:15 am 
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MadTechNutter wrote:
There you go the Diode Dropper for the ADD-method :mrgreen:

Took me less than 5 minutes. Never mind the fuse holder, I just took that wire from another project.
You should to get all those bits for less than 10 bucks at the local Jaycar store, or whatever your electronic parts store is called.
Red goes to the car terminal, black to the AUX battery negative.
I didn't have a 10A Schottkey but you see how they are wired just add or replace one of the normal ones.
You might only need three diodes, just try combinations.

You might not even have to bother about disconnecting the battery when the charger starts.
The way this works is that the charger voltage will be higher than the battery, well strictly speaking lower as the ground terminal will be too low for the diodes to conduct. You could say electrically disconnecting themselves.


Nice :ugeek:

I like the system for connect in series multiple diode ;)

I'm an "electronic" guy ... so I have tons of diode at home .. but they are rated around 1 or 2A .. so quite useless in this application ...

So .. 4 Diode rated 10A will do the trick ?

Maybe we can have a more precise procedure for the D method without needing to over-discharge the 12v battery ..


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:16 am
Posts: 19
Regarding my Power Supply plus DC Converter method.

I agree the need for a protection diode on the output, but volts shouldn't vary with current any more or less than the 3 diodes in series method?

Yes a Digital Volt Meter is required.

But hey, you guys have made my method redundant!

The diode method is so simple!

How do you feel about the appearance of the "EV System Error" message as an indication that the correct volts have been reached?

Obviously with no headlights or heater load on.

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Aussie Land
elm70 wrote:
MadTechNutter wrote:
There you go the Diode Dropper for the ADD-method :mrgreen:

Took me less than 5 minutes. Never mind the fuse holder, I just took that wire from another project.
You should to get all those bits for less than 10 bucks at the local Jaycar store, or whatever your electronic parts store is called.
Red goes to the car terminal, black to the AUX battery negative.
I didn't have a 10A Schottkey but you see how they are wired just add or replace one of the normal ones.
You might only need three diodes, just try combinations.

You might not even have to bother about disconnecting the battery when the charger starts.
The way this works is that the charger voltage will be higher than the battery, well strictly speaking lower as the ground terminal will be too low for the diodes to conduct. You could say electrically disconnecting themselves.


Nice :ugeek:

I like the system for connect in series multiple diode ;)



I'm an "electronic" guy ... so I have tons of diode at home .. but they are rated around 1 or 2A .. so quite useless in this application ...

So .. 4 Diode rated 10A will do the trick ?

Maybe we can have a more precise procedure for the D method without needing to over-discharge the 12v battery ..


Somebody need to test it.
Right now for me pointless

I am quite sure that it is not only about the battery voltage but how far the voltage changes under load.
A weak battery will drop, in my case from 10.5V open circuit down to 8.5V under a 1.44Ω load (100W lamp at 12V) which is 6A.
This lamp resistance will be a bit less when the battery was 8.5V but not that much, so 6-7A also seems likely the load when the charge process starts up when I measured a drop to about 8.5V
The diode I used in that example has exactly 1V drop at 10A and 0.9V at 6A.
https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds28010.pdf
So a battery charged with typically 12.4V open circuit would need 4 of these diodes and one Schottkey diode with 0.4V drop to get to 8.4V under a 6A load.
If the load is 10A then 4 standard diodes would do the trick.

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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:44 pm 
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Location: Aussie Land
michael8554 wrote:

How do you feel about the appearance of the "EV System Error" message as an indication that the correct volts have been reached?



I would not press the start button as this could exceed 10A and fry the diodes.

I also suggest to switch off the tail gate ceiling light(and no other doors open) to keep things in check.

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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Aussie Land
elm70 wrote:
Super :ugeek:

Let us know how behave your PHEV .. it was 29Ah before reset ... so check that it does not get over discharged when used "hard" in EV mode.

I'm also checking the SOC changes while at rest, for get an idea of real SOH .. I'm losing over 2Ah if I make multiple trips in EV mode without charge and with some rest time over 2h


Today I managed to drive it down to --.--

No troubles, no limp mode, got 50.8km out of it. :D
Before I was lucky to get 38km, mostly only 36km.

In the end the ICE did kick in for a short time up a short hill but switched off again when it was flat so that 0.8km doesn't count.
I did press a bit harder than normal on that hill because I wanted to see if I get limp mode.
After that I always stayed within the fully green bars on the energy usage indicator(EUI) for the last 5 km and also used the handbrake to avoid regen as I was driving in very quiet and slow but a bit hilly streets. That way I tried to emulate losses from a more faster drive. The rear brakes where quite hot when I got home.

Interesting is that the "Max In" value has gone up to -50.6 hp, almost double than driving before the reset.

The cell voltages where measured standing on my property, with the hand brake pulled as hard as it gets and the accelerator pressed a bit to get the needle showing a few bars on the EUI. Car felt a bit like a lowrider lifting up :mrgreen:
It is illegal in my country to drive with a phone visible next to me.

Also very happy that the cell voltage difference at this 'depleted' state is only 0.008V


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:17 pm 
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So .. the screenshot showing 3.68v and 30.4% SOC is at the end of trip with a bit of "gas" ... it would have been more significant without any "gas" in my view ...

What for me is relevant is to check how much SOC drop, and to which voltage the cell are bouncing back after 2h rest.

This will give you an idea how much further then 70% battery usage is really happening in the car.

Still 3.68 with a bit of gas .. is not looking too bad ... I hope this was above 3.75v without gas ... and hopefully it should bounce back above 3.78v or more after rest.

In these assumptions .. I think you probably just use 5% more extra battery capacity then intended (down to 25% vs 30% .. but this is not really an issue, since when driving slow, it is allowed to go down to 25%) ... while before BMU was over conservative allowing to use only 60% of real capacity ...

So ... apparently the BMU reset is a good win for your case ... and I can't see much of risk on overdischarge


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:49 am 
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The idea behind the 'bit of gas' was to reveal weaker cells.
This becomes more apparent when the battery is low and there is a load.

I think the problem that some had with turtle mode could be individual cells hitting 2.7V under load or whatever threshold is set in the battery management.
As said I can't read the dog while driving. Cops are everywhere here on the roads grabbing revenue rather than fighting REAL crime.

Another problem is I can't wait for 2h for anything to settle. That test was in the morning and it is drive or solar charge all day for me. Sometimes I need to go to town 3 times a day but I am usually quickly back. I work from home but have to pick up and deliver.
The extra driving range is heaven sent for me and I could now also manage a quiet cloudy day without charging.

For me it is not only about near 100% EV driving but also not having to pay for it :mrgreen:

...although I do like to occasionally floor it at 75km/h when all three motors give traction and me a nice kick.
Somehow I will eventually have to replace that fossil liquid that came with the car :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:31 am 
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Quote:
said I can't read the dog while driving. Cops are everywhere here on the roads grabbing revenue rather than fighting REAL crime.


EV Andy has asked for 245 documented offences to be taken into account........?

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:46 am 
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michael8554 wrote:
Quote:
said I can't read the dog while driving. Cops are everywhere here on the roads grabbing revenue rather than fighting REAL crime.


EV Andy has asked for 245 documented offences to be taken into account........?

Michael


I blame Mel Gibson - they all think they're Mad Max 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:18 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Poland
MadTechNutter wrote:
The idea behind the 'bit of gas' was to reveal weaker cells.



Yes it make sense ...

About driving and looking the Dog ... yes don't do it ... (not because the Police, since for some German/Australian driver is not a mayor issue ... not only for looking on the Dog, but as well, for making video & moving the camera while driving :? ) ...
Still ... remember the dog also show the trip record .. with very good info .. like max / min voltage per cell ... max delta voltage, etc.

Anyhow .. as said before ... all is looking quite fine in your PHEV, still only the time will tell if Mitsubishi has been over conservative (maybe due to a bugged firmware), or battery degradation is impacted by discharging down to 15% / 20% real SOC


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