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apyds

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
70
Want to ask a question that my dealer does not seem to know the answer to, namely, how good is the recharge cycle on the Outlander PHEV battery.

For instance, when I bought my new mobile phone I could talk a week on it without needing to recharge. After 2 years I have to recharge it every 4 days despite me having similar usage. The best I could find on the net to explain it was here:

http://www.batribike.com/battery-info

I appreciate the above has to do with electric bikes but I would think that the same would apply to any rechargeable battery including that on the Outlander PHEV.

My point is that with a new battery you can travel 35 miles with the Outlander PHEV on an electric alone. If after a 1000 recharge cycles (say three to four years) the battery only retained 60% of its original charge then you would only be able to travel 14 miles on electric alone on a full charge. It would probably be time to change the battery and I am thinking the battery is going to be an expensive part.

Does anyone know how much of its original charge the Outlander PHEV will hold after say, 1000 recharge cycles?
 
1. The recharging function on the PHEV is far more sophisticated than a cell-phone.
2. The construction of these batteries is far more robust, better membranes etc.
3. The battery temperature is controlled.
4. They cannot be run down under 15%.
Expect them to remain in good shape for at least 5 years, probably double that.
 
Hi,

If you haven't already found out the answer to your question.
This is what I've hear from the sales manager in Sweden.

As mentioned above.
The battery capacity is rated at 12 kWh, but uses a range of 7-8 kWh of that before ICE kicks in.
Thats means the battery never runs empty.
It takes about 10 kWh to fully charge the battery that means that 2-3 kWh is wasted due to charger inefficiancy.

The way of not depleting the battery will make it last longer, it is stated that after 100 000km (62 000 miles) the capacity of the battery will be 80 % of the original capacity.

The battery is suppose to last the whole lifespan of the car (maybe 200 000km - 250 000km), one can argue if this is too little of course, but that is what he told me.
 
Yes- with the caveat that for Li-Ion batteries the number of cycles (aka kms driven) is less important than the actual age of the battery, especially if it has good recharging management. It is better to express the endurance in years. There is a five-year guaranty on the EV part, including the battery.
 
jaapv said:
Yes- with the caveat that for Li-Ion batteries the number of cycles (aka kms driven) is less important than the actual age of the battery, especially if it has good recharging management. It is better to express the endurance in years. There is a five-year guaranty on the EV part, including the battery.

Point is I bet Mitsubishi will say that any reduction in the amount of charge a battery can hold is down to wear and tear and not a "fault" with the battery, therefore, not covered under the warranty.

I am told by my dealer that the battery is made up of 10 x 4 sets of separate cells. Each set of separate cells will cost roughly £400 to replace. To replace all the sets of cells will, therefore, cost £4,000 sterling (plus install on top). That is a fair bit of money! Mind you I am still going to be buying one :)
 
apyds said:
I am told by my dealer that the battery is made up of 10 x 4 sets of separate cells. Each set of separate cells will cost roughly £400 to replace. To replace all the sets of cells will, therefore, cost £4,000 sterling (plus install on top). That is a fair bit of money! Mind you I am still going to be buying one :)

Something didn't add up here...
Introduction:
1. Mitsubishi has said that the battery consists of 80 cells.
2. Also claimed that the battery consists of 3 departments.
Problem:
1. 10x4 is not 80
2. Actually 40 nor 80 is not possible to divide by 3...
Description:
Open up the Mitsubishi parts catalog...
Results:
The full battery pack (Partno: 9499D175 or 9499F067 with quick charge option) does consist of 3 departments.
2 small packs + 4 small packs + 4 small packs.
Confirmed that there are 3 departments. Confirmed that there are total of 10 sets of cellblocks.

Batteryblock of cells comes in left/right layouts so that there are two part numbers for the batteryblocks - 5 pcs each:
Part number 9499B921 * 5pcs and 9499B922 * 5 pcs.

To break up this batteryblock, there is only on item inside marked for replacement:
Partno 9499C947 Battery cell monitoring unit.

No replacement number for individual cells inside this small block. However by visual inspection you can see that there are 8 sections drawn in the image of the battery block. Also, when we know that the full voltage of the battery is ~300VDC and the nominal voltage of a single Li-Ion cell is ~3 V, therefore 80 individual cells are much closer in real values than 40. So:

The PHEV battery pack consists of 10 replaceable blocks of cells, each having 8 cells inside them.

QED
 
Won tickets to Mitsubishi Badminton Horse Trials for yesterday. Basically it is just a big horse/ show jump event in the UK that Mitsubishi sponsors. I'm not too interested in horses but did want to see the PHEV which was being displayed here and visited the stand which was being run by Mitsubishi. A girl by the name of Lucy who claimed to be employed by Mitsubishi UK head quarters was very knowledgeable about the PHEV and I was informed that she had input into how the car was designed. She explained that Mitsubishi estimate that with average driving they expect the PHEV to maintain at least 80% of its charge within the first 10 years. She went on to say that even as it loses the amount of charge its holds you would not have to replace all of the cells at the same time in order to ensure that that the car holds the same amount of charge as when new. Apparently, the front three sets of batteries will lose the amount of charge they hold the fastest, followed by the middle and then the back. Accordingly in order to maintain maximum efficiency you would change the front first and then after a period of time the middle and after a period of time the back.

Fast charging the car will reduce the amount of charge held by the batteries the fastest.
 
With the continuous development and improvements of batteries, would it be unthinkable that in the future one could replace original batteries with larger capacity ones that then increase the EV distance pr charge?
 
Nope, I can definitely see a market for upgraded batteries for old EV cars in the future. It might even be a DIY job for the so inclined.
 
Uno78 said:
With the continuous development and improvements of batteries, would it be unthinkable that in the future one could replace original batteries with larger capacity ones that then increase the EV distance pr charge?

Lithium battery and any other battery tech for that matter has pretty much peaked. The last couple of percent will be very expensive and at the cost of reliability.
I still hear people talk about solar panels and the efficiency improvements that are " just around the corner". Sorry to say while price per watt is down considerably. The amount of watts for square foot of surface has improved very little over the last couple of decades.
Same goes for Lithium batteries. We can tinker all we want but we can't change the laws of physics.
 
That's the spirit! No reason to do anymore research then since it's all been developed then...
I call BS on that and say that EV batteries has a very exiting future ahead, perhaps not lithium based ones but batteries as a whole.
 
Whatever the case, I hope that they put this battery capacity monitoring unit (which US regulations will require them to do) into versions in other countries as well:

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2014/1405_mitsubishi_outlander_phev_delayed_again_over_new_regulation/

Seems important to the US regulators anyway.
 
Fragge said:
Nope, I can definitely see a market for upgraded batteries for old EV cars in the future.
I think that market will be in old (depleted) batteries. While this set of batteries may not be good enough to power the EV car, a set of batteries at 80% or so would be ideal for use in a house for battery storage with PV panels.
I look at my new purchase of an Outlander PHEV as also buying batteries for furture use in such a PV storage system.
Goldie
 
Goldie said:
I think that market will be in old (depleted) batteries. While this set of batteries may not be good enough to power the EV car, a set of batteries at 80% or so would be ideal for use in a house for battery storage with PV panels.
Goldie

I think you are right, but I think that most batteries will be down to less than 50% capacity before people replace them. Mitsubishi claims that the batteries in the PHEV will have more than 65% left after 10 years, time will tell..
 
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