Let's stop ICEheat, when cold...

Steepndeep said:

Another starting sequence which works and is fast is to use two hands while starting. One pressing the ventilation "OFF" button and the other the "START" button simultaneously. By chear magic (or probably a complete oversight by Mitsu engineers) the boot sequence actually turns the ventilation off before the "check if ICE needs to start" sequence starts.

Click to expand...

I can imagine that will work. But all strategies we have come up with or can come up with have the same flaw: you have to think about them.

As long as everything goes according to your daily routine, you will be fine. But if whatever out of the ordinary happens, while you get in your car, you may forget about your strategy. In my case, the strategy is / was to turn off the heater before shutting down the car at the end of the previous trip. But I tend to forget, for example, when I am on the phone (hands free of course :mrgreen: ) when I shut down the car.

The best way of ensuring this is to never use the heater in the first place - simples :lol:

greendwarf said:

The best way of ensuring this is to never use the heater in the first place - simples :lol:

Click to expand...

True!

greendwarf said:

The best way of ensuring this is to never use the heater in the first place - simples :lol:

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I'm doing

Using pre-heat .. so car is nice and warm in the morning

I have set 15deg and air off .. so totally off .. and I could activate the air ventilation still without the risk to start ICE
The car does not get colder nor does get moist in the window (tested up to +3 deg outside, later I will see if this work for under zero too)

PS: Warming up the car for me it workds better in the programmed mode, then on the run ... that is a bit "odd" or maybe it is just " physics"

Have you perfected the ice start command algorithm yet?
Every year my 2017 PHEV ice starts at a higher outside ambient temp.
The following conditions occur:
1.No use of cabin heater
2. Immediate selection of EV button
3. Immediate selection of ECO button
4.SOC 100%
5. Preheat makes no difference.
6.Ice remains off until vehicle reaches approximately 12MPH
7. Ice runs for at least 4 miles at 40 mph unless
Car is cycled off/on
8. In 2017 this never happened
9. In 2018 this happened shin outside ambient was below 40
10. In 2019 outside ambient below 42
11. In 2020 outside ambient below 45
12. now (2020)outside ambient below 47 engine starts!
Help

Well could be the accuracy of the temperature sensor has declined or it is designed to match the inevitable decline in your battery because we know most of the software acts to preserve usable capacity - hence the 20% buffer. So as the available range from full charge reduces the ICE needs to cut in earlier? :idea:

This is my first winter owning the vehicle and third month driving with ICE control relay pulled out.
The good:
No ICE, full control of the electric heater, defrost and etc. Very happy.
Recently installed an switch to activate-deactivate this really full EV mode.
Now I have an perfect vehicle as it should be. Will post a how to in new topic.



The bad:
Few errors circling on the dash, and no guessometer. The battery level bar is working perfectly though.

Based on comments here it would seem that Mitsubishi made a software change to North American vehicles in late 2018 or 2019. I bought my 2018 SE model (Canadian) in late summer 2018 and in the first winter I was able to drive in below 0C temperatures easily without the ICE starting. I'm not sure when it changed, but this winter it will definitely start at temperatures of +6 C or less, regardless of whether the heater is on or not. Same behavior as Mort describes above. My dealer did mention a software upgrade at one of the service appointments but I didn't pay attention at the time.

It must be the battery temperature that is being checked though, not outside air temperatures. I was able to drive to work the other day completely in EV mode in -5C weather. The car started at +6C (from being in the garage) and even as the displayed temperature dropped to -5C the ICE did not start. If it is near +6C or +7C that's when pre-heating helps since that will heat up the battery a bit while it discharges.

Looking forward to the remote relay switch Kpetrov!

I believe that the described software change is comming with recall C1811R - (SUB-BMU service)
https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/129127/520072837

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

I have the same car as you do, a 2020 GT. I can confirm that the ICE DOES start in cold weather. Car is in my carport and I start it ... while doing my my seat belt the ICE starts, etc. the ICE starts. I'm guessing about 30 sec. after starting. What do you call cold? I'm talking about -5C (23F).

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

Yes, the engine coolant passes through the cabin heater. The electric heater is connected to the same coolant loop as well. There is an 4 way valve that separate the engine from the loop when it's not running and not warmed up.

Also the car is mechanically largely unchanged from launch in 2013, when you could get a base model without an electric heater. It is unlikely Mitsu would have re-engineered such a basic component for so little "sales potential", especially as the primary design philosophy is to preserve battery capacity.,

mellobob said:

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

I have the same car as you do, a 2020 GT. I can confirm that the ICE DOES start in cold weather. Car is in my carport and I start it ... while doing my my seat belt the ICE starts, etc. the ICE starts. I'm guessing about 30 sec. after starting. What do you call cold? I'm talking about -5C (23F).

Click to expand...

Oh, we haven't had too much weather below 30-32F here in NYC yet.... But honestly, my ICE has never comes on unless the heat is on, and I believe that only happens if the outside temperature is below about 45F. What I have noticed though, is if the outdoor temperature is below... some number... the ICE is much more likely to kick on if I accelerate abruptly, or go up a steep hill. In cold weather, I suspect this action would prepare the ICE for heavy use... which makes sense.

kpetrov said:

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

Yes, the engine coolant passes through the cabin heater. The electric heater is connected to the same coolant loop as well. There is an 4 way valve that separate the engine from the loop when it's not running and not warmed up.

Click to expand...

I accept this answer as you seem to know.

To me, though, the car doesn't seem to act that way. On a long trip where I am using the ICE a lot, and there is an abundance of engine heat, why doesn't the Guess-O Meter show improved range?

Separately, though, so far I am not happy with the automatic thermostat settings. Seems the air flow is warm enough once it warms up, but then later it seems to blow almost cold air to maintain the setting. It seems inadequate... Often, in freezing weather, I feel I have to raise the temp setting to 78F to feel comfortable. Doable, I guess, but I have never had to do that in any other car I've had with digital temperature settings.

Fjpod said:

mellobob said:

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

I have the same car as you do, a 2020 GT. I can confirm that the ICE DOES start in cold weather. Car is in my carport and I start it ... while doing my my seat belt the ICE starts, etc. the ICE starts. I'm guessing about 30 sec. after starting. What do you call cold? I'm talking about -5C (23F).

Click to expand...

Oh, we haven't had too much weather below 30-32F here in NYC yet.... But honestly, my ICE has never comes on unless the heat is on, and I believe that only happens if the outside temperature is below about 45F. What I have noticed though, is if the outdoor temperature is below... some number... the ICE is much more likely to kick on if I accelerate abruptly, or go up a steep hill. In cold weather, I suspect this action would prepare the ICE for heavy use... which makes sense.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I should have mentioned that my air conditioning system (cool or warm) is ALWAYS on. It's set for comfort level and left there. I'm too old to play the games some folks visiting here like to play to save a few pennies of gasoline. I had a VW with NO heater and drove that for a winter in sub zero prairie weather and I'll never forget that winter from hell.

Fjpod said:

kpetrov said:

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

Yes, the engine coolant passes through the cabin heater. The electric heater is connected to the same coolant loop as well. There is an 4 way valve that separate the engine from the loop when it's not running and not warmed up.

Click to expand...

I accept this answer as you seem to know.

To me, though, the car doesn't seem to act that way. On a long trip where I am using the ICE a lot, and there is an abundance of engine heat, why doesn't the Guess-O Meter show improved range?

Click to expand...

Because the GuessOmeter does not incorporate it in its calculations. It only considers past performance, battery level and airconditioning on/off.

And if you are using A/C (even with ICE heat) the predicted range is significantly reduced.

Fjpod said:

kpetrov said:

Fjpod said:

US 2020 owner here. I started a thread about heat but never quite got the answer. My question is... Assuming the ICE starts for whatever reason when you call for heat, does actual engine coolant pass through a cabin heater to warm the interior, or is it all electric heat? I suspect it is electric. This seems terribly wasteful to me.

BTW, My ice does not seem to start in very cold weather with the heat off... Only if I lurch out of the driveway.

Click to expand...

Yes, the engine coolant passes through the cabin heater. The electric heater is connected to the same coolant loop as well. There is an 4 way valve that separate the engine from the loop when it's not running and not warmed up.

Click to expand...

I accept this answer as you seem to know.

To me, though, the car doesn't seem to act that way. On a long trip where I am using the ICE a lot, and there is an abundance of engine heat, why doesn't the Guess-O Meter show improved range?

Separately, though, so far I am not happy with the automatic thermostat settings. Seems the air flow is warm enough once it warms up, but then later it seems to blow almost cold air to maintain the setting. It seems inadequate... Often, in freezing weather, I feel I have to raise the temp setting to 78F to feel comfortable. Doable, I guess, but I have never had to do that in any other car I've had with digital temperature settings.

Click to expand...

It is actually a fact, not something I believe in. (see system configurations below)
Regarding the Guess-O Meter it is a guess but probably the el. heater never stop working completely even when the ICE provide heat. My Guess-O Meter is changing the range when turning ON and OFF the ventilation even without heating.
On the other hand since I'm riding with disabled engine (full BEV) and the Guess-O Meter is not working in this mod my life became simpler.

"My Guess-O Meter is changing the range when turning ON and OFF the ventilation even without heating."

Precisely - the electric air con is driven by the traction battery, so turning it on will reduce driving range significantly. It takes a lot of energy to extract moisture from warm air