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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Titan wrote:
And how did you use the various modes during this trip? Did you drive in normal mode or utilize Save/Charge at all?

When retrieving the caravan from or bringing it to the location where I keep in during the winter, I manage to run completely in EV mode. No gas used. But this is only about 10 km with and 10 km without caravan.
Apart from that, always in Charge mode. Mostly in ECO mode. Will try non ECO next spring, but don't expect it to make a difference.

Titan wrote:
(BTW I can't seem to see your image in your first post. I've tried different browsers but all seem to just show an image tag but no link or image itself. Not sure what I'm doing wrong but obviously some setting on my computer somewhere)
Must be because I didn't know how to upload pictures here ad I used a link to the Dutch forum .... which is members only :oops: Need to find the correct way to upload pictures here.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Thanks to a tip from Ozukus to use Dropshots, I believe the image in my opening post is now visible to all :)


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 am 
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anko wrote:
Thanks to a tip from Ozukus to use Dropshots, I believe the image in my opening post is now visible to all :)
Yep, can see it now. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
In my attempts to maintain as much SOC as possible while towing I've tried various things, such as using premium fuels, turning off ECO mode and what not. All without much of a result. But the other week I found some relation between (regenerative) breaking and "charging while coasting" that might help out a little bit. Please try this:

Put your car in Charge mode.
Drive about 100 km/h on CC.
Watch instantaneous fuel consumption (most likely around 11 liters / 100 km) on MMCS or an OBDII scanner

Now cancel the CC. You will see the fuel consumption drop to almost nothing. I think it is just enough to prevent the engine from dragging.

Speed up back to 100 km/h. Fuel consumption will go back up 11 liter / 100 km. Take your foot off the go-pedal. Fuel consumption will again drop to almost nothing.

Speed up back to 100 km/h once more. Fuel consumption will again go back up 11 liter / 100 km. Select B0 (after cancelling CC you were still in B2 or even higher). Again take your foot off the go-pedal. Fuel consumption will shortly drop to approx. 7 l / 100 km and then go back up to 11 l / 100 km. At this time the engine is not propelling the car, but fuel consumption is rather high. IMHO, this can mean only one thing: the battery is being charged rather fast.

As a matter of fact, you can play with this: shortly pressing the break or shortly selecting B1 and then B0 again will bring the fuel consumption down. Shortly pressing the accelerator will puh the fuel consumption back up, but only when B0 is selected. When you select B0 right after canceling CC, fuel consumption will be low, until you briefly press the accelerator.

After playing like this for a while you will see can pick up pretty much EV range on a relative short stretch of road by varying your speed beween say 80 and 100 km/h, without using the (regen) breaks. Of course at a cost of high fuel consumption, but you get something in return: SOC. You will actually see a small amount of power being used in the A/C dial of MMCS, every now and then, which I associate with battery cooling.

Why is this relevant? While towing, most of the time I use CC. Until now, when there was a situation that allowed for or required coasting, I would cancel the CC and then select B0. But, as I understand now, then there would be hardly any charing during coasting. Next time, when I am in such a situation, I will quickly press the accelerator after (or during) cancellation of CC and selecting B0, allowing the car to charge during coasting. Must see what it will bring.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
Posts: 1102
Location: South Australia
I will be giving this a go.

The PHEV makes it difficult to use the last 9L of petrol in the tank without first depleting the battery reserve. On a longer trip with reduced refueling opportunity, the solution is to carry fuel and top up to avoid draining the battery. It had taken a few hundred km to recharge the battery to 3/4 after refuelling on a prior trip. To recharge soon after refueling, while driving may be a better solution and reduce unnecessary roadside stops. There will be a fuel and battery cost, but sometimes time is more critical.

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
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Location: South Australia
I can confirm that my AUS shipped PHEV recharges the battery rapidly after following the procedure offered by "anko" above.

It seems that removing the regen from the motors by operation in B0, prevents the regen from interfering with the charging algorithm. The logic is probably that as long as the recharging is less than the max regen from the motors, approx 60kW, that it does not matter if this comes from the generator, so 60kW could be going to the battery. I only saw 2500rpm, in my test, so probably only a max of 30kW.

A short time driving at 60kph, towing a caravan could see a significant %SOC gain if the procedure is followed, to help out later.

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Thanks for the feedback!


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
This is one of those days that it all works out well :)

This morning I managed to do the full 52.5 km to my destination without burning a drop of fuel. About 70 km of motorway, but driving between the trucks. Last 3 or 4 km were on '--', which was possible because of speeds below 50 km/h. Definitively my best EV score so for. Wasn't able to charge at my destination, but had to make another trip of 54.8 km a few hours later. As I left with a battery, about as empty as it can get, it was a good opportunity to test my new strategy.

Over a distance of 33 km (95% of which motorway) I managed to gain 20 :!: km of EV range. By that time, my fuel consumption was about 9.9 l / 100 km. I turned of charge and used up the charge. All motorway, doing about 90 km/h. Probably didn't get the full 20 km (I think it was about 18), but when the engine fired up again, my fuel consumption had dropped to 6.3 l / 100 km. Did one more short stint of charge mode to get range for last few kms of the trip. Arrived at my destination with an average consumption of 6.1 l / 100 km.

And now it is charging again for my 40 km trip home at the end of the afternoon :)


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 am
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Location: South Australia
Managed a trip to the city today and have not managed to replicate any improvement to economy by allowing the battery to deplete and then recharging back up compared to maintaining %SOC with SAVE mode operating all day, for the same 250km or so round trip.

I have also noticed a particular problem with the car seeming to run away on slight downhill stretches with the foot off the gas. Not a particularly good feature to have acceleration when the foot is taken off the gas. Happened with series and parallel hybrid modes, in the 70-110km speed range.

I can see some merit for a short trip if the battery just did not have enough for the trip, and there was some motorway component with say urban driving at the end.

Terrain and Road conditions will play an important part in effective use of this technique. I will not be using this technique very often, and will not try to gain better economy but just to rapidly boost the battery %SOC for potential later use.

I suspect that if towing the acceleration would be more noticable on slight downhill grades. Speed would affect this and the effect would be less at higher speeds as wind resistance was a more significant part of the driving load.

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8kW Solar Self Use, 16kWh 24V LYP battery, 3.3kW Battery Inverter
PHEV Solar Recharging Station
1.7kW Solar Grid connect

Make the GRID your friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
gwatpe wrote:
I have also noticed a particular problem with the car seeming to run away on slight downhill stretches with the foot off the gas. Not a particularly good feature to have acceleration when the foot is taken off the gas. Happened with series and parallel hybrid modes, in the 70-110km speed range.

I would think any car I have ever owned would run away on a downhill stretch, unless I engaged CC.


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