Thoughts on Battery Life/Age

Hi,

I love the idea of the PHEV but I'm worried that the price tag simply doesn't measure up.
I work from home, do the school run and some occasional business mileage and I require a large boot.

I'm trying to find an indication as to how long (in years) the battery should last based on average use.
Is it the case that once it hits 5 years old, the charging features are useless without forking out for new batteries?

If I can expect the batteries to eventually become useless, whats the MPG for petrol on the PHEV?

Many thanks
Dan

Basic research on the MMUK website will answer your questions

Steel188 said:

Basic research on the MMUK website will answer your questions

Click to expand...

Thanks for that totally useless response.
Don't you hate it when people respond in totally pointless ways or consider the OP to be stupid for asking the original question.

To clarify, the reason for asking here is to get owner's opinions/feelings rather than rely on laboratory data from the manufacturer. Yes, I can and have done some basic research on the MMUK website, but I want to hear from real owners to see if they would still consider buying a PHEV or if they would reconsider next time.

You also can't have read many posts in this forum otherwise you would have a better idea and perhaps then asked more specific questions.

However, AFAIK the answer to your first question is - nobody knows! Mitsu guarantee the batteries for 5 years or 60,000 miles (check MMUK website/adverts for this) So they are unlikely to fall off a cliff at that point but until we get there we don't know how long after that before the drop in capacity forces the replacement issue.

I imagine most users will not keep the car as long as this anyway but for those who do then average annual mileage is also a factor. I only do 6,000 per annum so might expect to get 10 years out of the batteries . Others are doing 20,000+ per year so will be lucky to avoid problems in 3 years! - but will be running a lower proportion in EV than I do.

So what do you mean by average and what is the mix of short/long ? You suggest the latter is infrequent so you are likely to make savings on most of your driving over petrol/diesel. You should get around 25 miles on one charge @ a cost of, say £1.20 - so less than half price. On top of that no Road Tax and BIK benefits if a business user.

The car can't be driven without a functioning battery as the engine drives a generator to top up the battery from which the electric motors draw energy to power the wheels. It is only at higher speeds that the engine connects directly with the front wheels and you have to get there via the battery first :? Therefore the second question about MPG on petrol alone is irrelevant.

You really have to do your own maths on your own figures to see if it will cost in but from what you've described I would guess you would save money over a similar SUV/large estate costing +£25k - depending on your financing costs, of course.

Finally do you actually need a new car? I did after 16 years and I had the cash to get a one year interest free deal

I hope this helps but do some more reading of other threads here to understand the likely costs on longer journeys - I don't do them often enough & then go overseas when I do, so my figures are useless.

Not many 5 year+ Outlanders around to be able to answer that question. :roll: However, I have a friend who drives a ten year old Prius and has no battery problems.

If it is anywhere like it is in the Netherlands, the warranty is against defects, not deterioration. MMNL specifically state that they do not expect the capacity to drop more than 30% in 5 years, but it is not guaranteed.

I don't see why the car could not be driven without a battery. Unless it was programmed not to. The power from the battery does not flow through the battery before it reaches the motors. The battery is just buffer, pretty much like the expansion reservoir in central heating system. The real problem would be that you would be limited to 60 kW as long as your speed is below approx 70 kW and to 89 kW at top speed. Not an awful lot for a car like the PHEV.

I am at 31 months and roughly 51.000 miles, and I can still do close to 32 miles EV if the conditions are favourable. We have people with more than 100.000 miles on them and I have seen no serious complaints regarding range yet. Personally. I am not too worried.

greendwarf said:

Finally do you actually need a new car? I did after 16 years and I had the cash to get a one year interest free deal

Click to expand...

My car is on its last legs and I can't afford to lay out for a new one. I am now considering leasing a PHEV so I dont need to worry about the battery deteriorating. I'll just give the car back at the end of the term and get a new one.

anko said:

I am at 31 months and roughly 51.000 miles, and I can still do close to 32 miles EV if the conditions are favourable. We have people with more than 100.000 miles on them and I have seen no serious complaints regarding range yet. Personally. I am not too worried.

Click to expand...

Thanks! That's really helpful!

greendwarf said:

You also can't have read many posts in this forum otherwise you would have a better idea and perhaps then asked more specific questions.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, when I searched for 'battery life', I got told that the search term is too generic. I tried a few other searches and couldnt find many posts that dealt with my query.

Thanks for the help. You've put my mind at ease.

Sorry, a follow up question, have any of you paid to have a charging station installed at home? If yes, were you happy with the install and was it installed neatly?

I installed it myself, so yes, I'm happy.

danj1980 said:

Hi,

I love the idea of the PHEV but I'm worried that the price tag simply doesn't measure up.
I work from home, do the school run and some occasional business mileage and I require a large boot.

I'm trying to find an indication as to how long (in years) the battery should last based on average use.
Is it the case that once it hits 5 years old, the charging features are useless without forking out for new batteries?

If I can expect the batteries to eventually become useless, whats the MPG for petrol on the PHEV?

Many thanks
Dan

Click to expand...

Assuming the battery capacity reduces to say 40%, the car would still make an excellent hybrid vehicle and you could expect fuel economy around 7-8l/100km in mixed use

Can we know this for sure? I mean, when the battery is near full, the car works far less efficient. For example regen does not work (well). If the total capacity is down to 40% (compared to new), will it behave as if it was constantly near empty or as if it was constantly near full?

Just wondering ....

anko said:

Can we know this for sure? I mean, when the battery is near full, the car works far less efficient. For example regen does not work (well). If the total capacity is down to 40% (compared to new), will it behave as if it was constantly near empty or as if it was constantly near full?

Just wondering ....

Click to expand...

Well... we won't really know until it happens. A lot depends too on whether the battery pack has aged evenly or there are just a few really bad cells. As long as it can soak up the 30kW bursts of energy that may happen during regen, it may be fine.
My hope is that in 5 years time that there may be battery replacements at reasonable cost, perhaps with an extra 50% capacity would be great.

anko said:

I don't see why the car could not be driven without a battery. Unless it was programmed not to.

Click to expand...

This is what HHL posted in February:-

"If the engine then runs out of fuel, the car will stop when the battery is down to 13%. This is enough to restart the engine after refuelling."

This suggests that with no traction battery power the car won't start even with petrol :?

anko said:

The battery is just buffer, pretty much like the expansion reservoir in central heating system..

Click to expand...

At the risk of being pedantic - a "buffer" is something between, I assume you mean "overflow" :ugeek:

greendwarf said:

anko said:

The battery is just buffer, pretty much like the expansion reservoir in central heating system..

Click to expand...

At the risk of being pedantic - a "buffer" is something between, I assume you mean "overflow" :ugeek:

Click to expand...

I guess you are right about that. Poor choice of words

danj1980 said:

Sorry, a follow up question, have any of you paid to have a charging station installed at home? If yes, were you happy with the install and was it installed neatly?

Click to expand...

I had one installed and I was and still am happy with the job. Love overnight charge on reduced tariff and in the winter pointing the phone app out of the bedroom window to get the car preheated largely from the mains is great!

For what it's worth I bought my PHEV new last November and I'm still delighted with it.

No regrets at all and not worried about battery life although this weather is not yet giving me the joy of seeing more than 23 miles predicted range. However that is usually more than enough for my daily needs.

By the way, on the 2016 MY models at least, the traction battery warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles (first 24 months unlimited mileage, thereafter 36/72 months or 62,500 / 100,000 miles from date of first registration, whichever occurs first).

:? No, I don't know either but as I am unlikely to exceed 6000 miles a year it's not an issue for me.

JimB

Claymore said:

By the way, on the 2016 MY models at least, the traction battery warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles (first 24 months unlimited mileage, thereafter 36/72 months or 62,500 / 100,000 miles from date of first registration, whichever occurs first).

Click to expand...

True. But against deterioration? Or against real defects?

"Normal wear and tear on traction battery is not covered......."

I've asked Mitsu UK what reduction of charge capacity at 8 years would be deemed NOT normal wear and tear but experience tells me not to remain excited at the prospect of an answer.

I'm pretty sure I remember the salesman at my dealer telling me (I know, pause for laughter) that the packs were expected to retain 80% of nominal capacity at 8 years and I've read similar elsewhere but that's all anecdotal.

Mitsubishi seem to studiously avoid giving that information, for what are maybe obvious reasons.

JimB