Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:52 am
Posts: 124
I've used batteries from these guys on my motorbikes for years and they've proved very reliable and are 'dry'. I haven't looked if they do one of a suitable size and capacity for the pHEV Aux

https://www.motobatt.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:40 am
Posts: 7
Location: Sydney
After following this forum for a number of years and reading about the issues with failed auxiliary batteries, I have finally experienced it today. Turned the car on this morning, got a blue light in the ignition switch and nothing else other than the wipers and the parking lights came on which I could not turn off. I then found I couldn't turn the ignition off as well. After a quite panic, I remembered all the discussion on this forum and determined that it was probably a flat auxiliary battery. I then measured the voltage and sure enough, 10.6V.
I tried trickle charging for an hour with no joy and so started trying to get a replacement. In Australia, Yuasa seem to only bring in motorcycle batteries, but I noticed that there were lots of suppliers in the UK but not here. However, after removing the battery I discovered it was an Exide battery. Its external dimensions were different from the Yuasa but still fitted easily into the compartment. I contacted our local roadside breakdown crowd but they advised that they don't stock batteries suitable for PHEVs. Finally, I searched the Exide website and found a local car repair business had a similar battery to the one I removed and so bought it (A$125), fitted it and now all is well.
Of interest have other Australian owners noted whether the battery in your car is a Yuasa or another brand? My car was originally a Mitsubishi staff leased vehicle and I wonder if the battery had of been replaced during that period or was it the original, the car is a2015 model.
Interesting day!!


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:18 am
Posts: 19
Location: Staffordshire (UK)
Quote:
I contacted our local roadside breakdown crowd but they advised that they don't stock batteries suitable for PHEVs.


I wonder what makes them think that Aux batteries for PHEVs are 'Special'?


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:05 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Australia
DerekT wrote:
Quote:
I contacted our local roadside breakdown crowd but they advised that they don't stock batteries suitable for PHEVs.


I wonder what makes them think that Aux batteries for PHEVs are 'Special'?


The main difference, I believe, is that it is inside the cabin of the vehicle, and is therefore a completely sealed unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Saratoga, CA
Solargen wrote:
After following this forum for a number of years and reading about the issues with failed auxiliary batteries, I have finally experienced it today. Turned the car on this morning, got a blue light in the ignition switch and nothing else other than the wipers and the parking lights came on which I could not turn off. I then found I couldn't turn the ignition off as well. After a quite panic, I remembered all the discussion on this forum and determined that it was probably a flat auxiliary battery. I then measured the voltage and sure enough, 10.6V.
I tried trickle charging for an hour with no joy and so started trying to get a replacement.


I'm about to order a battery load tester so that this doesn't happen to me. Unlike a pure ICE car (where you'd likely hear the car having trouble cranking just before the battery fails completely), these vehicles don't ever stress the 12V battery to the point where it's obvious it's about to fail. You need to use a load tester to determine the status of the battery before it fails completely and strands you somewhere. I'd just do this whenever I have to pump up the tires with more air (since my air compressor requires access to the battery terminals anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Dee Why
I'd be careful with that load tester if it is one that puts a real load on it.. it is not a starter battery and drawing a hundred A, as many load testers do, would not be a good idea to do repeatedly.
Theoretically, this battery should last a very long time unless it is deep discharged a few times. This could of course happen if the car is parked for a long period without being plugged in. There is no heat where it is and it really only needs to supply power for a very short period before the traction battery takes over. The box in the boot is actually vented, so it should be possible to use any battery that fits physically and has similar specs, i.e 40Ah or more.


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Saratoga, CA
HHL wrote:
I'd be careful with that load tester if it is one that puts a real load on it.. it is not a starter battery and drawing a hundred A, as many load testers do, would not be a good idea to do repeatedly.
Theoretically, this battery should last a very long time unless it is deep discharged a few times. This could of course happen if the car is parked for a long period without being plugged in. There is no heat where it is and it really only needs to supply power for a very short period before the traction battery takes over. The box in the boot is actually vented, so it should be possible to use any battery that fits physically and has similar specs, i.e 40Ah or more.

It's not that type of load tester, it's a much more advanced one that applies a small load and a larger one and larger one and extrapolates. I didn't want to get one that actually pulls 50-100A out of the battery but not because I think it'll damage the battery -- that's unlikely since the battery has over 300 CCA and you're only applying the load for a matter of 5 seconds or so. I didn't want to get that type of load tester because I'm worried that it'll pull down the voltage below the point where the computers in the car will be able to run -- and there's at least one very simple computer (for age of the fuel) that needs to run at all times. A second computer would be in the infotainment system (preset memories for radio).


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 3:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Dee Why
I do have one of those testers... Also thought they are a great idea, mine even tells me what the internal resistance is in milliohms... great, until the battery in my big car died....
After I replaced it, I decided to recharge the old one and this gadget pronounced it good even though it can only sustain a 2 amp load for about 15min..... so, not sure what the algorithm is to pronounce a battery good or bad.. it sure is not reliable. I don't trust it any more and have gone back to old one that puts a 100A load on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:15 am 
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 7:01 am
Posts: 110
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Is there any reason (besides the factory warranties) we can not replace the lead acid with Li-Ion battery? I am thinking LiFePO4, with BMS. 4 cells of LiFe match the 13.8V of Pb, in my experience.

Tai

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 Post subject: Re: Flattened auxiliary battery - any consequences?
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:18 am
Posts: 19
Location: Staffordshire (UK)
Quote:
Is there any reason (besides the factory warranties) we can not replace the lead acid with Li-Ion battery? I am thinking LiFePO4, with BMS. 4 cells of LiFe match the 13.8V of Pb, in my experience.


You'd have to consider the charging and terminal arrangements.
As I'm sure you're aware, the Aux battery is charged from the Traction battery via a DC-DC converter; the charging voltage is 14.6V.
And there is a fuse-holder that carries 6 or 7 fuses, directly mounted to the Positive terminal of the battery (Clamped onto the post) - at least there is on mine!


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