Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:12 pm 
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Location: UK Hertfordshire
It's fairly clear that some of the responses on this thread are from people that don't know the history that gave cause for the triple procedure to be devised and why some have found it necessary to provide a diy methodology,
I suggest you go to You Tube and find the videos contributed by UnpluggedEV and/or Gary Reed which will explain all


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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:12 am 
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Location: Munich, Germany
I know the history and all videos, but a reset doesn't help.
You need to do a DBCAM.

On the new video from Andy, you learn how to do a reset w/o MUT. Again I wouldn't do it!

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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:46 am 
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Location: Poland
Mitch wrote:
I know the history and all videos, but a reset doesn't help.
You need to do a DBCAM.

On the new video from Andy, you learn how to do a reset w/o MUT. Again I wouldn't do it!


The Lindqvist Method, shown by Andy video, can also be discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4534

Mitch has a valid point ... if battery is really deteriorated since new, making a reset could lead to over discharge the battery and deteriorate it even more.

But if the battery is in relative good shape, making a reset allow to use it "better"

I'm not 100% sure DBCAM is an exact procedure for estimated the real SOH ... since DBCAM does not really bring down the battery to 2.75v per cell, I guess it is still a guess procedure with potential errors.

Anyhow ... reset and similar procedure it is a risk ...


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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:42 am 
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Location: Aussie Land
Katmandu wrote:
It's fairly clear that some of the responses on this thread are from people that don't know the history that gave cause for the triple procedure to be devised and why some have found it necessary to provide a diy methodology,
I suggest you go to You Tube and find the videos contributed by UnpluggedEV and/or Gary Reed which will explain all


Triple procedure can take up to 72hours. This has nothing to do with a magical reset but an electrical balancing of the batteries which is what they likely mean with smoothing. That can not be done with a reset that only takes a few minutes.

Any errors accumulated with a buggy software can be likely erased with reset but you can never achieve a physical increase of capacity in a used battery, period

What these resets are doing including the just published Lindqvist Method are using a flaw in the system that erases the safety margins/reserve capacity of the battery that was stored as the battery ages, to maximise battery life.
That means it is now getting deeper discharged than as per design and/or possibly worse, charged up to higher voltage to achieve these higher Ah readings.

The rest lifecycle of the batteries could now be reduced by 50% and more.

I would prefer to charge my PHEV a bit more often and drive it another 10 years.

As I said, for a bug that shows a wrong reading on a new battery, this would make sense but any battery that has 50,000 km and more that you want to take 38Ah out of, you are asking for trouble.

Having the batteries properly balanced at Mitsubishi is a totally different story and I am not aware of any DIY method for that but that has nothing to do with any reset.

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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:18 pm
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Location: Poland
If I would know nothing about Lithium battery, I would believe fully on what state above.

But ... there are few things that I know very well, and I don't like to mix good things with wrong legends .. as happen above

The battery smoothing/balancing is a legend

The battery is kept balanced inside 0.005v every time it get charged, so balancing is not an issue nor a needed cure.

Yes, by reset the BMU, if the battery is well below 80% real SOH, there is a concrete risk to "over discharge" the battery in the first usage of it.
Still over-discharge is a strong word .. I believe there is a protection in the car that cause to kick in the ICE if the voltage of the battery go below some level (else they did an unbelievable amateur job in Mitsubishi, and this I don't think it is possible) .. still due to a reset in BMU it is possible to bring constantly (for few days/week, then BMU logic with reduce SOH promptly) the battery below the 30% or 25% SOC which Mitsubishi consider relevant ... still per Yuasa over 3000 cycles could be done with minor impact on SOH going down to 0% SOC ... so I assume keeping 15% SOC is still safe ...

Anyhow ... only the future will tell us the full story

More and more people are convinced that BMU firmware is bugged, and many people are happy after a BMU reset ... but .. nobody can know what will be the status of these cars in 5 / 10 years from now ..


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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:04 am
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Location: UK Hertfordshire
If you follow my suggestion and look at the You Tube videos you will find that the people involved have had communication with Mitsubishi Japan via their dealers and at no time have Mitsubishi suggested anything that is being suggested in the two previous posts but they did approve the triple procedure being carried out. Would they have done that if they knew what you are saying would occur with the prospect of large warranty claims for wrecked batteries?

I.E. smoothing is not a legend and does not automatically happen after every charge, the battery underlying parameters are not changed and remain the same so there is no risk of overcharging or discharging (the BMU is reset to original parameters as part of the process), a pure BMU reset has been tried and does not work.

I will readily confess to knowing nothing about battery technology and would not attempt a DIY cure and if people are happy with the performance of their PHEV Outlander good luck to them but do not belittle those of us who are not happy with this aspect of the vehicle and want Mitsubishi and the dealers to face up and be honest with us. I might be old, I might not know anything about batteries but I do know when I am being patronised and lied to by Mitsubishi and the dealers.


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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:33 am 
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Location: Aussie Land
elm70 wrote:
If I would know nothing about Lithium battery, I would believe fully on what state above.

But ... there are few things that I know very well, and I don't like to mix good things with wrong legends .. as happen above

The battery smoothing/balancing is a legend

The battery is kept balanced inside 0.005v every time it get charged, so balancing is not an issue nor a needed cure.

Yes, by reset the BMU, if the battery is well below 80% real SOH, there is a concrete risk to "over discharge" the battery in the first usage of it.
Still over-discharge is a strong word .. I believe there is a protection in the car that cause to kick in the ICE if the voltage of the battery go below some level (else they did an unbelievable amateur job in Mitsubishi, and this I don't think it is possible) .. still due to a reset in BMU it is possible to bring constantly (for few days/week, then BMU logic with reduce SOH promptly) the battery below the 30% or 25% SOC which Mitsubishi consider relevant ... still per Yuasa over 3000 cycles could be done with minor impact on SOH going down to 0% SOC ... so I assume keeping 15% SOC is still safe ...

Anyhow ... only the future will tell us the full story

More and more people are convinced that BMU firmware is bugged, and many people are happy after a BMU reset ... but .. nobody can know what will be the status of these cars in 5 / 10 years from now ..


Thanks for clearing up the smoothing/balancing myth if as you claim it is 100% reliable.
Just wonder why people say their battery is better after it has been done.

I do have a lot of experience with various types of Lithium batteries and battery balancers do not always work 100% when often heavily discharged/cycled or fast charged. The balance current is usually very low to reduce unnecessary discharge and it can take a long time to get all cells balanced.
I do not know anything about the balancing circuit in this car though that is why I believed what was said about the 'smoothing'.

Still waiting for my OBDII bluetooth and hopefully I can find a way to reliably read the actual cell voltages in comparison to the empty/full display.

Surely somebody could do this before and after these resets to see if it gets discharged deeper after the reset or charged higher.
There must be an explanation where these higher Ah ratings come from.

Generally in my experience discharge down to 10% SoC does not reduce cycle life, charging over 4V definitely does.

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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:08 am 
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Location: UK Hertfordshire
"Surely somebody could do this before and after these resets to see if it gets discharged deeper after the reset or charged higher.
There must be an explanation where these higher Ah ratings come from."

Watch UnplugedEV videos on You Tube, he has done precisiely that.


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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Aussie Land
Katmandu wrote:
"Surely somebody could do this before and after these resets to see if it gets discharged deeper after the reset or charged higher.
There must be an explanation where these higher Ah ratings come from."

Watch UnplugedEV videos on You Tube, he has done precisiely that.


He has 245 videos and talks on and on until I fall asleep before he finally gets to the point.
Here one of his videos from 6 days ago he mentioned that he measured voltages without showing details but comes up with no explanation.
https://youtu.be/eMUU5h8pMz0?list=UUCwv ... _qhfRyczOg
None of the mentioned procedures that he had done last very long, except the Triple which lasted a bit longer.

I don't have mine very long but I have not noticed any drop.
It is a 2014 model and I get comfortably over 40km including highway/hills.
If my SoH would be dropping at the rate like his since 2014, my battery would have to be dead by now.

Still waiting for my plug so I can look into this properly but if my SoH stays precisely where it is I am definitely not going to touch anything there.
Maybe there are some lemons and some not.

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 Post subject: Re: Triple Procedure & Setup (Costs around 80USD)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:47 am
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Location: Southern end of North Yorkshire, UK
MadTechNutter wrote:

It is a 2014 model and I get comfortably over 40km including highway/hills.
If my SoH would be dropping at the rate like his since 2014, my battery would have to be dead by now.

Maybe there are some lemons and some not.


I've had my 2015 GX4h for 6 months now. When I got it it would do about 24 miles (40km) on battery without any use of the paddles or anything other than a lightish right foot and not using the heater/aircon unless I really need it. It still does that, 2500 miles (4000km) later and it's almost on 60000 miles. As far as I'm concerned 25 miles EV range without trying on a 60000 mile PHEV is good enough for me.

I am quite happy to use petrol though if I want to accelerate faster or have the heater on when it's cold. My daily commute I can do without petrol if I think about it, but usually I might use a tiny amount at one particular junction. I do journeys of 200 miles or so every couple of weeks, obviously mainly on petrol. I have only rapid charged it twice - just to see what it does to be honest, when on longer journeys I find it better to be moving (and using petrol) than waiting for 20 miles of cheaper travel. I just stick it on a normal 3.6kW charge when I get home each night so the battery is topped up each day.

So maybe some are more prone than others. Or maybe it's the type of roads and traffic that they're driven in that makes the difference. Personally I'm happy with mine as it is. It's saving me money compared to my old petrol-only car, and is nice to drive.

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2008 Volkswagen Caravelle (diesel)
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