For mountains and motorways?

I need a reasonable sized 4x4 to transport food, laundry etc, as economical as possible but quick! I need to find a vehicle with a balance of economy and power
its usage would be driving around a ski resort, up and down the mountain and long motorway drives
Does a phev fit the bill or should I consider something else?

It should not be a bad fit, but do not take any notice of the headline figures like "148 mpg" - actually, if you have mountains, I assume you think in km, but you understand what I mean. For relatively slow trips of up to about 50km, you should get very low running costs, but as you go much further or faster, it becomes a 2 litre petrol car and performs accordingly - the sums are not hard to do in a simple spreadsheet if you can predict your pattern of usage.

Fine in the mountains. Economical enough. Fast enough. But all three at the same time? No way. Best to move on.

anko said:

Fine in the mountains. Economical enough. Fast enough. But all three at the same time? No way. Best to move on.

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I don't read it as wanting all three at the same time. He seems to be looking for something that can potter round a ski resort, climb mountains and do some long motorway runs - the outlander can do all three decently well - whether or not it is the right car for Cazzieb depends very much on the relative amounts of each of the three he needs to do. If he is prepared to accept 45 to 50mpg, then I see no reason why it is not a decent option. That may not match the adverts, but is he going to do significantly better in a decent size 4WD? Certainly not without going for a diesel and that carries with it the risk of increasing penalties in many countries.

Cazzieb said:

... as economical as possible but quick! ... a balance of economy and power ..., up and down the mountain and long motorway drives ...

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Or do you think he needs to find one quickly? Than it is a different story :mrgreen:

You can drive a PHEV hard and get 40mpg - which does not compare badly with other large 4WDs - Range Rover Evoque? But unlike other 4WDs, you can also drive it gently and get far better figures. All things are relative - does a pattern of usage that does not allow the car to achieve the very high theoretical figures invalidate it as an option? I know that a diesel can outperform a PHEV for fuel consumption on long or high speed runs, and a petrol V8 can outperform it for acceleration, but I don't see a problem with someone buying a PHEV as a compromise knowing that it is going to be slightly worse than an Outlander diesel for fuel economy and slightly slower than a Range Rover off the lights, but on balance beats them both and does not have draconian anti-diesel legislation hanging over it - do you?

Also remember that if you go up then you also will come down and you can recover some power with the regenerative braking.

My intent - still waiting for the car - is to use the paddles much like I use engine braking on downhills in London. So many 20mph (~30km/h) roads that I suspect I'll get plenty back

PeterGalbavy said:

Also remember that if you go up then you also will come down and you can recover some power with the regenerative braking.

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Of course, and for me in the Alps the addition of uphill and downhill gives an average 8,0 - 8,5 liters per 100 km without charging (depending of the speed and temperature).

Not bad at all for such a big and heavy SUV

I think that the true enemy for Cazzieb (as for all of us !) will be the long motorway trips ...

Admittedly I am not yet using my PHEV in optimum mode yet, as I am in a phase of having to do numerous long hauls and am generally cruising at about 120kmh on Europe’s Autoroutes.

My consumption is consistently between 11.6 and 12.4 km per L (36 mpg and near enough what Grigou reports for mountain driving) if I don’t manage to re-charge on route. As soon as I include a better balance of home charging between local runs, this goes up to something like 20 km per L.

I look forward to the time when most of my journeys are under 50km and I can recharge daily!!!

What does "about 120 kph on motorways" signifies ?

"About 120" = less than 120, or more ? Or navigating around 120 ?
"120" : real speed (GPS), or just speedometer ? The gap is about 5 kph ...

So, if you drive at 118 kph on the speedometer, the result is very different of driving at 122 kph on GPS (9 kph... and perhaps 0,7 liter per 100 km ... ).

Cazzieb,
I think it depends very much on how you drive. I have a PHEV which I use mainly in London. It's great - short trips, roomy and very tax efficient.
I am also fortunate to have a 4.8 V8 BMW X5.
I drive out to the Austrian Alps 2/3 times a year and , so far, have always taken the X5.
Put simply I like to drive fast and don't particularly like stopping. On the last return I did 400 miles in 5 hours.
The problem with the PHEV is that it simply doesn't have the reserves of power I like for safety (that's a personal view) and the fuel tank is small so range is limited.
I've tried the PHEV in Europe and it cruises well albeit there's not much left over 120 kph.
Like for like fuel consumption (with the same roofbox) I get 20.5 mpg with the BMW and 27 mpg with the PHEV - a bit closer than official figues suggest.
If you are happy with a 120 kph cruise and stop every 2 hours it will be fine but it isn't optimised for trans-continental high speed work.