LastTemplar
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:25 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 10, 2018 1:21 pm

Regulo wrote:
LastTemplar wrote:Also, is there anything on the dashboard that tells if the vehicle is currently running on ICE or Power? I can't usually tell if the ICE is running, it's so quiet compared to my previous car, which was a Diesel Nissan X-Trail :D
Probably the easiest way is to use this:

Image
Thank you! I've totally missed that button somehow.

robdickinson
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:46 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 10, 2018 8:13 pm

It takes what 3-4 litres of fuel to charge the battery (and what 40-45min?).

This is extra over and above what it uses to power the vehicles motion.

So for me that would be $7-8 to charge to 80% rather than 80c or so overnight for electricity.

Its useful if you want charge for EV only zone or need it for big hills or towing.

elm70
Posts: 1156
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Poland
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 10, 2018 10:57 pm

robdickinson wrote:It takes what 3-4 litres of fuel to charge the battery (and what 40-45min?).

This is extra over and above what it uses to power the vehicles motion.

So for me that would be $7-8 to charge to 80% rather than 80c or so overnight for electricity.

Its useful if you want charge for EV only zone or need it for big hills or towing.
As I said ... push charge when the car is not moving it make no sense .. and this is the case that 80% charge cost 3L of fuel

If the car is moving at a decent speed it is a totally different story

For example ... while cruising in a autobahn at over 130km/h, so the ICE is running anyhow ... I think click on charge is a good thing .. since it will increase the load of the petrol engine for charge the battery and this should cause to have a more efficient usage of the petrol engine ... assuming that the increase of efficiency of petrol engine does cover the ~10% energy lost in the conversion from kinetic energy into electric energy

In my case ... I'm now cruising around 120lm/h in the autobahn, and I manually do the cycle charge-discharge ICE/EV , by pressing CHARGE for reach 10/15km EV range and then switch in EV mode .... assuming I'm doing long distance ...for shorter distance .. I plan to charge in the autobahn for have enough EV range for end my trip in EV mode (assuming I can charge at destination)

robdickinson
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:46 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 1:28 am

I think thats speculation.

It needs a steady extra ~30kw of power from the engine to charge, you pay for that in extra fuel use regardless of if the car is moving or not

anko
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 2:30 am

Not just speculation. Charging while stationary requires the engine to turn over approx. 60.000 times (40 mins * 1500 rpm). This by itself consumes a lot of fuel. Charging while driving (especially at speeds above
60 km/h) requires no (additional) turn overs. So the extra fuel is spent on generating electricity and not on making the engine spin.

As a matter of fact, the "30kW needed to charge" you mention seems highly speculative. Typical charge rate is much, much lower than that.

When stationary: (80% - 30%) * 12 kWh = 6 kWh. To add this amount in 30 - 40 minutes requires about 9 - 12 kW from the engine (ignoring losses in generator and battery).

anko
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 2:50 am

Regulo wrote:Probably the easiest way is to use this:

Image
But keep in mind, this graphic is meant to show energy flow, nor whether the engine is running or not. And it is not very truthful.

When coasting at "parallel mode" speeds the engine-to-wheel symbol in the graphic may turn off while in fact the engine is running idle and consuming fuel. But not generating any useful power.

On the other hand, during the warm up phase, the engine-to-battery symbol may light up intermittently, where the engine is running all the time. But never generates any useful power.

LastTemplar
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:25 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 3:51 am

anko wrote:
Regulo wrote:Probably the easiest way is to use this:

Image
But keep in mind, this graphic is meant to show energy flow, nor whether the engine is running or not. And it is not very truthful.

When coasting at "parallel mode" speeds the engine-to-wheel symbol in the graphic may turn off while in fact the engine is running idle and consuming fuel. But not generating any useful power.

On the other hand, during the warm up phase, the engine-to-battery symbol may light up intermittently, where the engine is running all the time. But never generates any useful power.

Thanks for the info. I went and read more about the 3 driving modes the vehicle has, it seems that you don't actually have any power over what driving mode you want to use, it always selects them automatically.
Driving a white Outlander PHEV Gx3h 2015

anko
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 4:07 am

LastTemplar wrote:Thanks for the info. I went and read more about the 3 driving modes the vehicle has, it seems that you don't actually have any power over what driving mode you want to use, it always selects them automatically.
Are you talking about EV versus Serial Hybrid versus Parallel Hybrid modes? You have a little bit control over that. For example:

Selecting Charge mode while in EV mode will case one of the two Hybrid modes to be selected.
Flooring the accelerator while in EV mode or in Parallel Hybrid mode will select Serial Hybrid more.

ThudnBlundr
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 8:29 am

But then again, why do you need any control? Some very clever people have spent a while perfecting the system...
2015 GX4hs since 03/18
2015 Renault Zoe R240 owner since 11/17

You may have speed, but I have momentum...Image

anko
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 11, 2018 12:19 pm

ThudnBlundr wrote:But then again, why do you need any control? Some very clever people have spent a while perfecting the system...
Based on what they know or believe to know about our usage pattern. When towing my caravan, I would prefer series mode over parallel mode, even at higher speeds, as it allows me to maintain a decent soc for when I need it at the cost of a slightly higher fuel consumption.

And maybe just because we can? :P

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