PHEV versus Diesel

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

BrotherBig

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
18
I was talking with a friend today about the merits of electric over diesel fueled cars. He commented on the fuel economy enjoyed by many diesel vehicles. Personally, I didn't see his point, but it did get me thinking.

Nearly every electric on the market has a diesel or fuel-based counterpart. In some cases, it's not a huge jump to the next one. In others, it's huge.

Interesting to note the proposed difference between the Outlander Diesel (out now) and the Outlander PHEV. Unfortunately, we can't compare it yet since it's not out in the real world market yet, unless you count Japan.

Still the Diesel reports 48.7mpg while the PHEV is saying 149 mpg for the outlander plug-in. Thoughts?
 
The 149 MPG it MPGe meaning its the equivalent as travelling 149 for the cost of a gallon of gas. The number we really want to know is what is the mileage of the Outlander PHEV once the battery pack is depleted and it's running as just an Outlander Hybrid? That'll make comparing it to the Outlander diesel much easier - although why bother? The diesel isn't available in North America anyway, at least not yet...
 
klaus said:
The 149 MPG it MPGe meaning its the equivalent as travelling 149 for the cost of a gallon of gas. The number we really want to know is what is the mileage of the Outlander PHEV once the battery pack is depleted and it's running as just an Outlander Hybrid? That'll make comparing it to the Outlander diesel much easier - although why bother? The diesel isn't available in North America anyway, at least not yet...

Why would it make much easier?

The fact is that Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a battery pack and it's his advantage versus his diesel counterpart, and I don't think it would be fair to take the main advantage it has except for the torque that EVs have on gas powered cars.

In my book the PHEV is superior to it's diesel counterpart due to two crucial things: fuel efficiency and more importantly - new environment friendly technology that has to be supported in order for it to work.

But of course the Outlander comes at a higher price. A price that can be refunded in tax cuts and fuel savings in the end so I really don't think I would ever pick the diesel over Outlander PHEV.
 
Interesting perspective.

That surely is the pros/cons discussion we're facing isn't it? It's the balance of upfront costs versus cost of ownership. I like that breakdown.

One could argue, that the cost of a PHEV is lower over its lifespan (presumably) versus a gas-powered car - no matter the economy, because we're still talking fuel economy.

We'll have to see what happens when the Outlander PHEV does when it finally rolls out.

Thanks for your input!
 
I have owned 7 diesel cars in the US, and loved each one. Nothing quite compares to the torque and HP of a turbo diesel, along with great freeway MPG. That being said, there are reasons why my last car was a hybrid gas, and my current car is a plug-in hybrid gas car:

1) My driving habits suit a plug-in hybrid. Nowadays, my commute is mostly city driving, with occasional freeway usage. This suits a plug-in hybrid phenomenally well over a diesel. On electricity, my miles cost me 1/5 the cost of gasoline miles, or 1/6 the cost of diesel miles. So, if 1/2 - 3/4 of my driving is on electricity, I totally wipe out the benefits of a diesel. Were I a freeway commuter, with no stop-n-go traffic jams, I would love the torque and power of a diesel, especially at freeway speeds. I loved how diesels can accelerate from 50 to over 70 without hardly blinking. I miss that... but, not enough to give up 120mpg that I currently get.

2) Diesel fuel costs more than gas, at least where I live. Diesel is a better deal than gas in a conventional car, given the higher MPG, but only just barely, especially when you figure in the higher initial cost of the vehicle.

3) Diesel is polluting. don't get me started here! Yes, today's diesels are FAR better than the black cloud producers of days long ago. Yes, diesel produces less CO2 per mile than gas (mostly due to higher MPG), but produces more nitrogen oxides and sulfur oxides, and requires fancy equipment to mitigate these pollutants. And YES, I do understand biodiesel, and its wonderful properties; I ran thousands of gallons of BioD in my cars. Manufacturers are having a difficult time with BioD, and most are only permitting 5-10% mixture with regular diesel. After losing a $1500 fuel pump to BioD in the past, I am very wary of the problems. The one remaining issue of pollution has to do with ultrafine particles coming from diesel exhaust. If I read the research correctly, these ultrafine particles will be a significant health concern with humans in urban areas, and until regulations are imposed, and manufacturers figure out how to trap these, and keep the carcinogens out of people's lungs.

There's my two cents..
 
boyelectric said:
I have owned 7 diesel cars in the US, and loved each one. Nothing quite compares to the torque and HP of a turbo diesel, along with great freeway MPG. That being said, there are reasons why my last car was a hybrid gas, and my current car is a plug-in hybrid gas car:

1) My driving habits suit a plug-in hybrid. Nowadays, my commute is mostly city driving, with occasional freeway usage. This suits a plug-in hybrid phenomenally well over a diesel. On electricity, my miles cost me 1/5 the cost of gasoline miles, or 1/6 the cost of diesel miles. So, if 1/2 - 3/4 of my driving is on electricity, I totally wipe out the benefits of a diesel. Were I a freeway commuter, with no stop-n-go traffic jams, I would love the torque and power of a diesel, especially at freeway speeds. I loved how diesels can accelerate from 50 to over 70 without hardly blinking. I miss that... but, not enough to give up 120mpg that I currently get.

2) Diesel fuel costs more than gas, at least where I live. Diesel is a better deal than gas in a conventional car, given the higher MPG, but only just barely, especially when you figure in the higher initial cost of the vehicle.

3) Diesel is polluting. don't get me started here! Yes, today's diesels are FAR better than the black cloud producers of days long ago. Yes, diesel produces less CO2 per mile than gas (mostly due to higher MPG), but produces more nitrogen oxides and sulfur oxides, and requires fancy equipment to mitigate these pollutants. And YES, I do understand biodiesel, and its wonderful properties; I ran thousands of gallons of BioD in my cars. Manufacturers are having a difficult time with BioD, and most are only permitting 5-10% mixture with regular diesel. After losing a $1500 fuel pump to BioD in the past, I am very wary of the problems. The one remaining issue of pollution has to do with ultrafine particles coming from diesel exhaust. If I read the research correctly, these ultrafine particles will be a significant health concern with humans in urban areas, and until regulations are imposed, and manufacturers figure out how to trap these, and keep the carcinogens out of people's lungs.

There's my two cents..

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly! This is a wonderful "two cents". I'm a fan, man.

Cost of ownership vs (or in connection with) your cost of actually owning the car. Incredible.

I believe you're right, too, on the later part of your comments, regarding the impact on the environment. That's what started me off thinking about going electric in the first place. It's what has helped us go off grid in our home, and what has us watching this industry so closely.

There is so much to benefit from not impacting the environment, while still getting a good run out of your car. Unfortunately, as your comments point out, though, it depends on the case.

An Outlander PHEV would be great, given the room, power, and options. It would be a nice buy. If you're in the country, though, or in an area more rural, perhaps the impact isn't as helpful on your budget. I don't know. But with commutes, with average driving, it seems like the time is ripe for this sort of technology.
 
Back
Top