Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
I agree that the choice of an Outlander PHEV was, in retrospect, probably not the right vehicle for me. My most regular return journey which I do at least once a week, is 48km. And I thought it would be safe to assume I'd be able to do this petrol-free based on Mitsubishi's marketing material specifying a 54km EV cruising range. But no, after a few months from new I couldn't. But what I find most unsatisfactory is Mitsubishi's extraordinary reluctance to accept that there is any problem. Surely the wealth of information on the web and the petitions about this problem justify some sort of action from the company (most likely a software upgrade it would appear)? Companies as large as Mitsubishi shouldn't be allowed to get away with such blatant arrogance, should they?


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:55 am 
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Posts: 18
Well.. I would be kinda furious if I lost ~15% of of range in the first 3/4 months or 10.000kms..

I was almost to about to buy a PHEV (like, I'll buy one tomorrow) and as such I went on Youtube to watch some PHEV owners' videos to learn more of the car's functions.. I ended up staying up almost until morning cuz of all the videos about battery degredation. From several continents (read several weather condiftions, not matter what they were).

I just couldn't believe it (or didn't want to believe in it).. So next day I questioned the dealer. After 2 days he called me back and was getting ready for a very long talk (not conversation!) about how many he personally sold, how many were repeating owners and what not.. It was up until I told me that all the cars come in for the first maintenance (1 year) with the same exact range that I stoped him and just gave up on the car. That was just impossible: 1 year and no degradation at all..

I went: "what about all the stuff regarding dropping range? Everyone seems, no matter the weather, to lose the same amount of range after 10.000kms. It's on the dog thing app! Are all the cars you personally sell imune to it?!"

He replied: "I don't know what you're talking about! There seems to have just this one guy that has nothing better to do with his time than obsess with his car's range! more [salesman jargon].. any battery problem will be taken care by Mitsubishi Japan without any charge to you"

At that point I just gave up! I mean, either all the cars he sold were to ignorant (blind?!) people that don't care/have no clue about the range or are just fine with the systematic dropping of range. Well, I just couldn't take it! That's not me..

I'm a software developer, if I were to deliver software that "gradually degrades" on purpose (as Apple did with iPhone batteries) I would be fired! iPhone users told it was unacceptable and everyone acknowledged it! Why are would people be OK with it in such an expensive purchase?! I just don't get it..

And to add to the "personal/subjective" acceptance of the range drop, as a government who subsidises these cars I would persue this matter and fine Mitsubishi for the lack of information. I feel, as a tax payer, it should!


It's just a shame, but I just can't buy the car out of principles.. I would like to (still would like to) but... can't... :|


How are the 2019 owners dealing with it? anyone has got a DBCAM yet?


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:53 pm
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I don't think you should blame the dealers. They've got to follow the Mitsubishi party line or they lose their dealership.

They're probably all pretty pissed off that they can't even apologise to us and explain that there is a Mitsubishi head office directive to deny all knowledge about this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 2017
I also think the criticism of dealers is unfair. Yes, there seems to be a problem with 2018 models (see post elsewhere regarding recall) but most of the cars sold so far will be pre-2018 and probably most owners don't track their battery performance. As I have repeated ad nauseam this is primarily designed as a city car, so many owners (most?) will recharge their cars before the battery is empty (like me) so won't notice the degradation - or least, won't be affected by it. As a result, they don't complain to the dealer - simples!


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:55 am 
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Location: Netherlands
Your phone loses battery capacity with use, your camera does, your shaver does, all battery-driven gizmos do. It is just a fact of life with present-day technology. And yes, most of the capacity loss will be in the first period of use. The only solution is to get something electrical that feeds off the mains and a VERY long extension cord... :roll:
All I can say is that my car is within the predicted range after five years and 130.000 km. I.e. with my normal ("EV"-style) use 40-45 km when new to about 35-40 now - in summer. According to my dealer (who is a relative and thus unlikely to spin stories to me) virtually all the PHEVs he sold -hundreds- are behaving similarly. The only exceptions being one which got a guaranty battery replacement and one which was force-fed on rapid chargers all the time.
Of course, the way the car is driven influences the range more than anything else, and is likely to get more "loose" as one gets used to the car in the beginning, a factor not to be discounted.

The Internet is a collecting place of complaints and gripes, hardly representative of real life.

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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:12 am 
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Location: UK Hertfordshire
I think some are missing the point. The problem is not battery degradation, the battery is fine, but the software in particular the BMU has problems because it artificially reduces the battery capacity and at the same time it reduces the electric range.
The biggest problem is that Mitsubishi won't admit it and aggravate the situation by instructing their dealers to deny it, to lie to owners.
There is a temporary work around that Mitsubishi allow in Australia and Canada that resets the BMU but have told UK dealers not to use it.
Mitsubishi would get more credit by admitting the problem and resolving it than destroying the reputation of a great vehicle and treating their customers as idiots.


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:19 am 
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I agree 100%.

This is the real issue.


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:52 am 
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Katmandu wrote:
I think some are missing the point. The problem is not battery degradation, the battery is fine, but the software in particular the BMU has problems because it artificially reduces the battery capacity and at the same time it reduces the electric range.
The biggest problem is that Mitsubishi won't admit it and aggravate the situation by instructing their dealers to deny it, to lie to owners.
There is a temporary work around that Mitsubishi allow in Australia and Canada that resets the BMU but have told UK dealers not to use it.
Mitsubishi would get more credit by admitting the problem and resolving it than destroying the reputation of a great vehicle and treating their customers as idiots.



Thanks, I couldn’t have said it better!

If my shaver/iPhone/etc starts showing signs of wear, I’ll buy a new battery or a new one.

If the brand deliberately programs the shaver/iPhone/etc to behave differently when it could have better performance (same as new in the case of the iphones) but with shorter durations I would like to at least be given the choice!! To program the device to show less capacity or behave with less performance without telling the user is just insulting!

I’m not comparing Apple to Mitsu. Apple did it so the user could still have a phone that last all day (or maybe just wants to sell newer models :p). Mitsubishi wants to protect the battery for the duration of the warranty (I think..)

The fact that the triple procedure resets the BMU and the systems measure the whole capacity back to full makes me think there’s something that could have been done better regarding that battery protection.. for example, restore once a year during the scheduled maintenance.

Adding to that, 2019 models rapidly decreasing the range from the 43 to 38-39 kW where the previous models usually stabilize just makes me say no to buying one until we know more!


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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:07 am 
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I think you're missing the point. Every Lithium-Ion battery degrades over time. My iPhone battery certainly does. My previous phone was down to 85% when I sold it. They were restricting full power so that the phone didn't crash unexpectedly when the OS demanded full power. Luckily mine was still above the point of having to implement reduced performance, but it was implemented so that people could keep their phones longer. The problem with iPhones was that Apple originally didn't tell people that this was happening.

But you're saying that there's a procedure that resets everything and says the battery is back to 100%. By any measure that must be wrong as every battery of this type in the world degrades over time and use.

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 Post subject: Re: calling on 2019 owners
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:22 am 
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ThudnBlundr wrote:
I think you're missing the point. Every Lithium-Ion battery degrades over time. My iPhone battery certainly does. My previous phone was down to 85% when I sold it. They were restricting full power so that the phone didn't crash unexpectedly when the OS demanded full power. Luckily mine was still above the point of having to implement reduced performance, but it was implemented so that people could keep their phones longer. The problem with iPhones was that Apple originally didn't tell people that this was happening.

But you're saying that there's a procedure that resets everything and says the battery is back to 100%. By any measure that must be wrong as every battery of this type in the world degrades over time and use.



Look, I'm all for the good user experience. iPhones did it by caping the performance system wide, were Apple could have done it only when needed (throttle the system when using the camera, but not when reading a SMS or email). That would be, IMHO the way to do it. They didn't!

Here Mitsubishi is deliberately caping the range for reasons unknown! The battery degrades? Yes! Do I expect it to? Yes! To level computed by and algorithm? NO!

Look at the 2019 capacity readings:

Attachment:
phev_2019.png


How could these bat's lose SoH so fast?!?!?!


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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