calling on 2019 owners

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luispcorreia

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Messages
18
hey all,

im considering buying a new outlander phev but this whole battery degradation thing is stoping me from actually make the deal.

is there anyone with a MY2019 that can tell me anything (good or bad) about the stupidly fast battery degradation seen on the 2019 models?

thanks in advance!
 
Well..........

My PHEV is 9 months old, only done 3,700km and the EV cruising distance has reduced from 54km to 42km in that time. Mitsubishi tell me that's normal.
 
SimonR73 said:
Well..........

My PHEV is 9 months old, only done 3,700km and the EV cruising distance has reduced from 54km to 42km in that time. Mitsubishi tell me that's normal.

!!!!

That’s 12km!! :|

Haven’t you considered the OBD2 thing to see for yourself?

Upon asking the dealer for this whole situation he showed me a 2019 model he uses for demo with around 5000k showing 52km.

I might ask him to put it on the MUT device and show me the SoH as a condition to buy one.

All he does is denying and stand by >50km on normal driving conditions..
 
To be frank, if your daily/regular round trip journey is near the 50km limit and you have no opportunity for convenient topping up at the other end then the PHEV is not the car for you. If you want to do it all electric then get a full EV and hire/buy a normal car for longer journeys.

If most of your trips between charges are over 50km then the saving from any EV driving is marginal - unless you live & drive in a city such as London where there are savings (parking etc.) from using an EV other than just fuel.

I am the user the car is designed for. My daily into Central London commute is less the half the full charge distance (even after degradation) with a regular weekend journey from South to North London, a few miles over the maximum range. Nearly all other journeys involve at least 100 miles round trips plus holidays abroad, where the marginal savings from the small amount of EV driving are wiped out by expensive motorway petrol charges. :lol:

If you can't fit into this sort of pattern then I'd say don't buy the PHEV. :idea:
 
I would tend to agree with greendwarf - PHEVs in general (not just the Outlander) are aimed at people whose daily usage is within the average estimated EV only range (though not necessarily only using EV - higher acceleration at junctions might require a bit of engine power) - with the occasional (ie weekend) longer journey where it's going to be using mainly petrol. And by average range, I mean what you actually get, not what the dashboard estimate says. So for older cars like mine, that's around 20 miles/35km per day, newer ones should get more as they've got bigger batteries.

All rechargeable batteries do degrade, and yes, the software on the Outlander may not be getting the best it could from the battery. But I'd also say that petrol and diesel engines also lose efficiency as they age too albeit over a longer time period. Battery powered vehicles have only relatively recently matched petrol/diesel cars in terms of performance and price, so you really shouldn't expect them to have the same levels of longevity yet.

If you do match the PHEV target market then I would say don't worry too much. Compare what's discussed on the other PHEV forums (Audi, VM, BMW, Kia etc) and you'll find much the same. I did a lot of research before I bought mine (very nearly got an Audi A3 etron), and came to the conclusion that the battery will degrade, but probably not enough in the time I intend to own it to cause me any issues. Being sensible and not rapid charging too often and not forcing it into EV mode when it might be better using a bit of petrol will reduce the rate at which it degrades.
 
Mine is Dec 2018 registered, also called 2019 model. Done 7000mile no degradation at all , getting 31 miles on full charge. I also had one from 2016 to 2018. New one is much much better
 
And, I might add, even subtle changes in driving style will affect the range hugely. If I am in a hurry and sloppy with my right foor, I will have very little left after my 27 km commute (2013 model 130000 km), but if I remember to feather the accelerator and keep the power meter as far to the left as possible, I can easily have up to 15 km left when driving the same stretch. In the same time too... ;) This behaviour makes all anecdotal distances driven very subjective.
 
I have ordered mine and at the time didn’t realize the degredation could be so extreme as I read in some cases. On the other hand, some don’t seem to have any issues. I will install the watchdog app and now and then take a look. If degredation is unreasonably high Mitsubishi will have to do something about it (regardless of what “something” is).

Remains the question, what is unreasonable. I couldn’t tell the tipping point just yet

SimonR73 said:
My PHEV is 9 months old, only done 3,700km and the EV cruising distance has reduced from 54km to 42km in that time. Mitsubishi tell me that's normal.

If it is in this range (this is 22% :shock: ) I will definately not settle with a dealer telling me all is ok
 
SimonR73 said:
Well..........

My PHEV is 9 months old, only done 3,700km and the EV cruising distance has reduced from 54km to 42km in that time. Mitsubishi tell me that's normal.
To be fair, you said that that is a change between summer and winter use. Our Zoe goes from 80 to 60 miles on the GOM over winter
 
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4508

You will find more comments on the same subject although not specifically MY2019 vehicles.

My MY2018 first reg April 18 shows an SOH of 34.2AH max capacity shrunk from 38.0AH.

I don't believe this is degradation of the hardware but miscalculation by the BMU/BMS software/firmware that Mitsubishi will not own up to.

I have queried it with the dealership and I am waiting for a response, about 6 weeks, but expect to be told it is quite normal. It might be in their world but not in mine!!!
 
I agree that the choice of an Outlander PHEV was, in retrospect, probably not the right vehicle for me. My most regular return journey which I do at least once a week, is 48km. And I thought it would be safe to assume I'd be able to do this petrol-free based on Mitsubishi's marketing material specifying a 54km EV cruising range. But no, after a few months from new I couldn't. But what I find most unsatisfactory is Mitsubishi's extraordinary reluctance to accept that there is any problem. Surely the wealth of information on the web and the petitions about this problem justify some sort of action from the company (most likely a software upgrade it would appear)? Companies as large as Mitsubishi shouldn't be allowed to get away with such blatant arrogance, should they?
 
Well.. I would be kinda furious if I lost ~15% of of range in the first 3/4 months or 10.000kms..

I was almost to about to buy a PHEV (like, I'll buy one tomorrow) and as such I went on Youtube to watch some PHEV owners' videos to learn more of the car's functions.. I ended up staying up almost until morning cuz of all the videos about battery degredation. From several continents (read several weather condiftions, not matter what they were).

I just couldn't believe it (or didn't want to believe in it).. So next day I questioned the dealer. After 2 days he called me back and was getting ready for a very long talk (not conversation!) about how many he personally sold, how many were repeating owners and what not.. It was up until I told me that all the cars come in for the first maintenance (1 year) with the same exact range that I stoped him and just gave up on the car. That was just impossible: 1 year and no degradation at all..

I went: "what about all the stuff regarding dropping range? Everyone seems, no matter the weather, to lose the same amount of range after 10.000kms. It's on the dog thing app! Are all the cars you personally sell imune to it?!"

He replied: "I don't know what you're talking about! There seems to have just this one guy that has nothing better to do with his time than obsess with his car's range! more [salesman jargon].. any battery problem will be taken care by Mitsubishi Japan without any charge to you"

At that point I just gave up! I mean, either all the cars he sold were to ignorant (blind?!) people that don't care/have no clue about the range or are just fine with the systematic dropping of range. Well, I just couldn't take it! That's not me..

I'm a software developer, if I were to deliver software that "gradually degrades" on purpose (as Apple did with iPhone batteries) I would be fired! iPhone users told it was unacceptable and everyone acknowledged it! Why are would people be OK with it in such an expensive purchase?! I just don't get it..

And to add to the "personal/subjective" acceptance of the range drop, as a government who subsidises these cars I would persue this matter and fine Mitsubishi for the lack of information. I feel, as a tax payer, it should!


It's just a shame, but I just can't buy the car out of principles.. I would like to (still would like to) but... can't... :|


How are the 2019 owners dealing with it? anyone has got a DBCAM yet?
 
I don't think you should blame the dealers. They've got to follow the Mitsubishi party line or they lose their dealership.

They're probably all pretty pissed off that they can't even apologise to us and explain that there is a Mitsubishi head office directive to deny all knowledge about this issue.
 
I also think the criticism of dealers is unfair. Yes, there seems to be a problem with 2018 models (see post elsewhere regarding recall) but most of the cars sold so far will be pre-2018 and probably most owners don't track their battery performance. As I have repeated ad nauseam this is primarily designed as a city car, so many owners (most?) will recharge their cars before the battery is empty (like me) so won't notice the degradation - or least, won't be affected by it. As a result, they don't complain to the dealer - simples!
 
Your phone loses battery capacity with use, your camera does, your shaver does, all battery-driven gizmos do. It is just a fact of life with present-day technology. And yes, most of the capacity loss will be in the first period of use. The only solution is to get something electrical that feeds off the mains and a VERY long extension cord... :roll:
All I can say is that my car is within the predicted range after five years and 130.000 km. I.e. with my normal ("EV"-style) use 40-45 km when new to about 35-40 now - in summer. According to my dealer (who is a relative and thus unlikely to spin stories to me) virtually all the PHEVs he sold -hundreds- are behaving similarly. The only exceptions being one which got a guaranty battery replacement and one which was force-fed on rapid chargers all the time.
Of course, the way the car is driven influences the range more than anything else, and is likely to get more "loose" as one gets used to the car in the beginning, a factor not to be discounted.

The Internet is a collecting place of complaints and gripes, hardly representative of real life.
 
I think some are missing the point. The problem is not battery degradation, the battery is fine, but the software in particular the BMU has problems because it artificially reduces the battery capacity and at the same time it reduces the electric range.
The biggest problem is that Mitsubishi won't admit it and aggravate the situation by instructing their dealers to deny it, to lie to owners.
There is a temporary work around that Mitsubishi allow in Australia and Canada that resets the BMU but have told UK dealers not to use it.
Mitsubishi would get more credit by admitting the problem and resolving it than destroying the reputation of a great vehicle and treating their customers as idiots.
 
Katmandu said:
I think some are missing the point. The problem is not battery degradation, the battery is fine, but the software in particular the BMU has problems because it artificially reduces the battery capacity and at the same time it reduces the electric range.
The biggest problem is that Mitsubishi won't admit it and aggravate the situation by instructing their dealers to deny it, to lie to owners.
There is a temporary work around that Mitsubishi allow in Australia and Canada that resets the BMU but have told UK dealers not to use it.
Mitsubishi would get more credit by admitting the problem and resolving it than destroying the reputation of a great vehicle and treating their customers as idiots.


Thanks, I couldn’t have said it better!

If my shaver/iPhone/etc starts showing signs of wear, I’ll buy a new battery or a new one.

If the brand deliberately programs the shaver/iPhone/etc to behave differently when it could have better performance (same as new in the case of the iphones) but with shorter durations I would like to at least be given the choice!! To program the device to show less capacity or behave with less performance without telling the user is just insulting!

I’m not comparing Apple to Mitsu. Apple did it so the user could still have a phone that last all day (or maybe just wants to sell newer models :p). Mitsubishi wants to protect the battery for the duration of the warranty (I think..)

The fact that the triple procedure resets the BMU and the systems measure the whole capacity back to full makes me think there’s something that could have been done better regarding that battery protection.. for example, restore once a year during the scheduled maintenance.

Adding to that, 2019 models rapidly decreasing the range from the 43 to 38-39 kW where the previous models usually stabilize just makes me say no to buying one until we know more!
 
I think you're missing the point. Every Lithium-Ion battery degrades over time. My iPhone battery certainly does. My previous phone was down to 85% when I sold it. They were restricting full power so that the phone didn't crash unexpectedly when the OS demanded full power. Luckily mine was still above the point of having to implement reduced performance, but it was implemented so that people could keep their phones longer. The problem with iPhones was that Apple originally didn't tell people that this was happening.

But you're saying that there's a procedure that resets everything and says the battery is back to 100%. By any measure that must be wrong as every battery of this type in the world degrades over time and use.
 
ThudnBlundr said:
I think you're missing the point. Every Lithium-Ion battery degrades over time. My iPhone battery certainly does. My previous phone was down to 85% when I sold it. They were restricting full power so that the phone didn't crash unexpectedly when the OS demanded full power. Luckily mine was still above the point of having to implement reduced performance, but it was implemented so that people could keep their phones longer. The problem with iPhones was that Apple originally didn't tell people that this was happening.

But you're saying that there's a procedure that resets everything and says the battery is back to 100%. By any measure that must be wrong as every battery of this type in the world degrades over time and use.


Look, I'm all for the good user experience. iPhones did it by caping the performance system wide, were Apple could have done it only when needed (throttle the system when using the camera, but not when reading a SMS or email). That would be, IMHO the way to do it. They didn't!

Here Mitsubishi is deliberately caping the range for reasons unknown! The battery degrades? Yes! Do I expect it to? Yes! To level computed by and algorithm? NO!

Look at the 2019 capacity readings:

View attachment phev_2019.png

How could these bat's lose SoH so fast?!?!?!
 
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