kpetrov
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: What fuel consumption can I expect on 50mile run on motorway?

Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:58 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:47 am
kpetrov wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:58 am
ThudnBlundr,
What kind of scientific proof you may need? It is basic knowledge the ICE is more efficient on the highway than town, even more efficient when mechanically coupled with the wheels (which occur over the speed of 65km/h only) and electric propulsion is much more efficient in stop and go traffic compared to an ICE and when we include and losses from AC - DC conversions is getting even worse.
Which of those statements you refute? If you agree with them no further proof is needed.
And still no proof! For proof we need to see actual figures, not theories. How do you know the ICE is more efficient in parallel mode on the highway to series mode around town? Any figures? What are the actual losses in Series and Parallel modes? Any figures? And it certainly isn't basic knowledge that an EV with an ICE is more efficient on a highway than in town - you're confusing the PHEV (an EV with regen and ICE optimisation) with a car driven solely by an ICE geared to the wheels. So you are proposing theories as fact - however plausible they may seem, you have nothing to back up those theories. Of course, if you do have any figures whatsoever to back up your claims, I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
What kind of proof I asked? Do publications in sciencedirect.com and ucsusa.org cout as proof or you need all the mathematics and physics behind it?
Series vs Parallel vs Series/Parallel Drivetrains
Series drivetrains:
Series hybrids perform at their best during stop-and-go traffic, where gasoline and diesel engines are inefficient. The vehicle’s computer can opt to power the motor with the battery pack only, saving the engine for situations where it’s more efficient.
Parallel drivetrains:
Since the engine is connected directly to the wheels in parallel drivetrains, the inefficiency of converting mechanical power to electricity and back is eliminated, increasing the efficiency of these hybrids on the highway. This reduces, but does not eliminate, the efficiency benefits of having an electric motor and battery in stop-and-go traffic.
A lot of publications here as well... sciencedirect.com

BTW basically I agree with everything you said to jpalfrey and it seems you know the vehicle. Why you need an proof regarding parallel vs. series when you already know it is beyond me.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

jaapv
Posts: 4595
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: What fuel consumption can I expect on 50mile run on motorway?

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:49 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:15 am
I quite agree it might be more socially acceptable to refrain from using an ICE in a built-up area, but that's not my point. No one has produced any figures proving it's more economical. Just a simple "it must be true" doesn't really cut it in scientific circles. I'm not saying it's untrue, merely unproven.
Why does it have to be peer-reviewed scientific? For a simple activity like driving a car there is nothing wrong with empirical. In fact, the second approach will be much closer to real life.
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SilverD
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: What fuel consumption can I expect on 50mile run on motorway?

Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:18 pm

I can understand that people are interested in the PHEV's fuel economy, but, unless you are testing on a controlled circuit there will always be different results. Are you trying to find out if you get 28 mpg or 28.01 mpg. A change in weather or road surface and incline plus a slower car you accelerate past will have some effect on any cars fuel efficiency. If your only concern about the car is fuel economy then I commend you on being able to live your live without time constraints and other drivers affecting you.
With an emergency time constraint I recently found out the max speed of the PHEV and how well it handled at that speed. I was not concerned about fuel economy.
Towed a large trailer over 300klm using charge and used a tank of fuel, did the same trip without the trailer and on save, and only used half a tank of fuel.
If it had used 21 litres instead of 20 litres I still would not complain about fuel efficiency.

2020 Red Exceed
2020 Red Exceed 2.4 PHEV
1998 Landrover Discovery 300Tdi

oscarmax
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: What fuel consumption can I expect on 50mile run on motorway?

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:09 am

SilverD wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:18 pm
I can understand that people are interested in the PHEV's fuel economy, but, unless you are testing on a controlled circuit there will always be different results. Are you trying to find out if you get 28 mpg or 28.01 mpg. A change in weather or road surface and incline plus a slower car you accelerate past will have some effect on any cars fuel efficiency. If your only concern about the car is fuel economy then I commend you on being able to live your live without time constraints and other drivers affecting you.
With an emergency time constraint I recently found out the max speed of the PHEV and how well it handled at that speed. I was not concerned about fuel economy.
Towed a large trailer over 300klm using charge and used a tank of fuel, did the same trip without the trailer and on save, and only used half a tank of fuel.
If it had used 21 litres instead of 20 litres I still would not complain about fuel efficiency.

2020 Red Exceed

Towing a 1500kg caravan 178 miles (286.4 km) I actual used brim to brim 30.92 litres
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

SilverD
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: What fuel consumption can I expect on 50mile run on motorway?

Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:42 am

Well done. That is the kind of mileage I would expect towing my van.
I refer you back to my first paragraph regarding time constraints and weather conditions.

2020 Red Exceed
2020 Red Exceed 2.4 PHEV
1998 Landrover Discovery 300Tdi

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