Any ideas about this???

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The standard fossil fuel rambling from a dinosaur...

In the comments it is mentioned that the Outlander PHEV has been sold in massive numbers in the Netherlands but have disappeared from the roads to be sold to other countries.
I see lots of PHEV's every day and the second hand prices are still rather high.
 
Yes -indeed a bit of nonsense.

The next video is much more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUMIBa_rAis
 
It's hard to argue with most of what he says. We bought the PHEV solely for the tax concessions and the lack of a clutch and mechanical gearbox (ok, it does have both but only to a very limited extent). We would never have been able to justify the purchase if it were not for the favourable tax treatment and the fact that we are self employed and can, therefore, receive the tax benefits that are available to both the employee and employer with the PHEV as a company car.

Without those tax concessions, it is quite simply an expensive car. The EV range is less than 30 miles and, once it runs out of battery, its petrol consumption is nothing special compared with other cars in the same class. A SEAT Ateca costs about £10,000 less and there is no way that you will recoup that money in a realistic lifetime for the car. It is certainly true that the PHEV is quite cheap to run up to 30 or 40 miles per day - but those short distances do not cost much in petrol in a conventional car which cost a lot less in the first place. Over 40 miles per day, the PHEV becomes a petrol car and not a particularly efficient petrol car.

For a self-employed person, the position is rather different. We profited from the low BIK penalties as employees and the flexible writedown against Corporation Tax rules. Next year, we will profit from the poor retained value when the company (ours) sells it to us at a small fraction of the original purchase price - all that depreciation translates into a tax free cash transfer from the company to us.
 
Hmmm.. Mine cost 57.000 Euro new and is still worth 23.000 according o my dealer; several used car sites agree. Not very good, but not spectacularly bad eitherr. And yes the tax advantage was insane. In the end I will have paid about 10.000 Euro net for the car. :eek:


However, in practice it has been so advantageous for my use that I would not dream of selling it. I only use petrol on longer journeys which are not a large part of my mileage. In fact in seven or eight years time it would make sense to replace the battery, instead of sinking the money into another car.

And if the econimic verdict were so sombre, how come that the cars are still selling new, despite removal of most tax advantages?
 
jaapv said:
Hmmm.. Mine cost 57.000 Euro new and is still worth 23.000 according o my dealer; several used car sites agree. Not very good, but not spectacularly bad eitherr. And yes the tax advantage was insane. In the end I will have paid about 10.000 Euro net for the car. :eek:


...

The numbers really don't add up, sir! 57,000 Euro is something over £50,000 (even at today's exchange rate) - the current UK list price of the 4HS is about £41,500 and the current government grant should bring that down to about £39,000 - so you either had a lot of extras added, or prices are higher in your part of the world. Anyway, lets consider UK prices - list price around £39,000. The Ateca is a very similar car to the PHEV in everything apart from the drive train - arguably the equipment level is better. The absolute top of the range petrol Ateca price is just over £31,000 and I think you'll find that the price of the equivalent to the 4HS is more like £27,000 - but lets consider the £31,000 for comparison purposes. That is a price difference of £8,000 - if the Ateca only does 40mpg and you don't consider the cost of charging the PHEV at all, you'll have to do 64,000 miles before you break even. Most of us pay over a pound to recharge a PHEV and get a range equivalent to about £3 of petrol - after which we are lucky to average 40mpg.

With the tax concessions, it just about makes sense - always assuming that your alternative vehicle would also be a rather large 4WD estate. But this assumes that most of your usage is within the EV range of the vehicle - which, for most people, would make a far cheaper and smaller vehicle a realistic alternative.
 
Hundreds of Companies, thousands of models and millions of users. Each person buys according to his needs and requirements. There is no argument , no physics, no economics. Buy what you want and like.
 
"There is no argument , no physics, no economics."

When I buy, there's no logic, either! I get completely sucked into my own little universe, where economics and common sense disappear - I see it, I like it, ergo I must have it! Having said that, I'm completely satisfied with my PHEV, probably the best car I've ever owned. Despite all the little niggles and quirks.
 
maby said:
With the tax concessions, it just about makes sense - always assuming that your alternative vehicle would also be a rather large 4WD estate. But this assumes that most of your usage is within the EV range of the vehicle - which, for most people, would make a far cheaper and smaller vehicle a realistic alternative.

Ah! - but I pay no congestion charge and only £2.50 to park all day in Westminster. Beat that suckers :lol:
 
greendwarf said:
maby said:
With the tax concessions, it just about makes sense - always assuming that your alternative vehicle would also be a rather large 4WD estate. But this assumes that most of your usage is within the EV range of the vehicle - which, for most people, would make a far cheaper and smaller vehicle a realistic alternative.

Ah! - but I pay no congestion charge and only £2.50 to park all day in Westminster. Beat that suckers :lol:

Enjoy it while it lasts - TfL have a history of tightening up on CC exemptions. My Prius was exempt when we bought it, but they stopped that a few years later.
 
maby said:
jaapv said:
Hmmm.. Mine cost 57.000 Euro new and is still worth 23.000 according o my dealer; several used car sites agree. Not very good, but not spectacularly bad eitherr. And yes the tax advantage was insane. In the end I will have paid about 10.000 Euro net for the car. :eek:


...

The numbers really don't add up, sir! 57,000 Euro is something over £50,000 (even at today's exchange rate) - the current UK list price of the 4HS is about £41,500 and the current government grant should bring that down to about £39,000 - so you either had a lot of extras added, or prices are higher in your part of the world. Anyway, lets consider UK prices - list price around £39,000. The Ateca is a very similar car to the PHEV in everything apart from the drive train - arguably the equipment level is better. The absolute top of the range petrol Ateca price is just over £31,000 and I think you'll find that the price of the equivalent to the 4HS is more like £27,000 - but lets consider the £31,000 for comparison purposes. That is a price difference of £8,000 - if the Ateca only does 40mpg and you don't consider the cost of charging the PHEV at all, you'll have to do 64,000 miles before you break even. Most of us pay over a pound to recharge a PHEV and get a range equivalent to about £3 of petrol - after which we are lucky to average 40mpg.

With the tax concessions, it just about makes sense - always assuming that your alternative vehicle would also be a rather large 4WD estate. But this assumes that most of your usage is within the EV range of the vehicle - which, for most people, would make a far cheaper and smaller vehicle a realistic alternative.
Which explains why the PHEV was the best-selling car over here for about a year, and not in the UK ;)
 
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