Towing capacity

Just read somewhere that the outlander phev has a 1500kg towing capacity with electric brakes in Australia and Europe. Just asked my dealer here in Canada and it is set at ~650kg, without any information when towing with electric brakes.

Is there any differences between eu and canada/usa version of the outlander phev that would reduce its towing capacity?

In the uk it’s 1500kg, with a 75kg nose weight.

Same in the Netherlands. No electric brakes needed.

This is weird, why would they lower it in canada?

Bobpogoman said:

Just read somewhere that the outlander phev has a 1500kg towing capacity with electric brakes in Australia and Europe. Just asked my dealer here in Canada and it is set at ~650kg, without any information when towing with electric brakes.

Is there any differences between eu and canada/usa version of the outlander phev that would reduce its towing capacity?

Click to expand...

It probably has to do with some legal red tape in Canada, not with the car as such. In fact, 1500 kg is a rather conservative value.

jaapv said:

Bobpogoman said:

Just read somewhere that the outlander phev has a 1500kg towing capacity with electric brakes in Australia and Europe. Just asked my dealer here in Canada and it is set at ~650kg, without any information when towing with electric brakes.

Is there any differences between eu and canada/usa version of the outlander phev that would reduce its towing capacity?

Click to expand...

It probably has to do with some legal red tape in Canada, not with the car as such. In fact, 1500 kg is a rather conservative value.

Click to expand...

Hmm then it is weird that the 6-cylinder outlander has a 1500kg towing capacity but the phev only 650kg when they have the same braking system and the same frame...

I will wait until they get their phev shipment 2nd or 3rd week of january, and then ask the dealer about it.

Bobpogoman said:

jaapv said:

Bobpogoman said:

Just read somewhere that the outlander phev has a 1500kg towing capacity with electric brakes in Australia and Europe. Just asked my dealer here in Canada and it is set at ~650kg, without any information when towing with electric brakes.

Is there any differences between eu and canada/usa version of the outlander phev that would reduce its towing capacity?

Click to expand...

It probably has to do with some legal red tape in Canada, not with the car as such. In fact, 1500 kg is a rather conservative value.

Click to expand...

Hmm then it is weird that the 6-cylinder outlander has a 1500kg towing capacity but the phev only 650kg when they have the same braking system and the same frame...

I will wait until they get their phev shipment 2nd or 3rd week of january, and then ask the dealer about it.

Click to expand...

I understood that European towing limits are linked to the kerb weight of the car not its power - so that the car controls the behaviour of the trailer not the other way round. I imagine, given the very different potential driving environment in Canada, their rules will be based on other considerations.

However, as discussed endlessly elsewhere, the braking system can't really be described as the same as the diesel version - never mind the very different drive train, weight distribution etc. - so you can't compare them.

I've been on other car forums (Isuzu, Subaru) in the past where the higher tow ratings in UK vs US and Canada was a subject of debate, so this is not specifically about the hybrid power train. Different countries have different legislation, and it's this rather than any difference in the physical abilities of the car. For example in the UK a towcar has to be able to do a hill start on a 12 percent gradient, and the maximum towing limit can't exceed that. Of course there are other factors too, and not all cars are plated at the 12 percent, but it is a limiting factor. I doubt being able to (just!) pull away on a 12 percent would be considered adequate in a more mountainous country. Maybe Canada has different rules for that? There are probably other factors. Towbars have to be type-approved for specific vehicles in the EU, and tend to be well engineered.

By the way, as far as I know electric brake controllers aren't a thing over here, it's overrun brakes. Don't know what the pros and cons are.

Steve

jaapv said:

In fact, 1500 kg is a rather conservative value.

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I don't agree with that. I have had occasions of 'reduced propulsion power' while towing my 1500 kg caravan on the motorway, so I think my caravan is right at, if not over, the limit.

On the short run (or at local speeds), the car is absolutely great while towing and can do much more than 1500 kg, I agree. But on the long run it has an issue with maintaining battery charge in parallel hybrid mode. There are simply not enough RPMs to produce the power needed to keep going. So, the E-motors + battery must help out, nearly most of the time. Once the battery is depleted (maybe after 200 kms or so, provided you have engaged Charge mode from the beginning), the car will switch to serial mode, allowing for more RPMs and thus more output. This way the battery can be recharged a bit. You end up in a hysteresis cycle of serial - parallel - serial - parallel. Not very comfortable (to the ears) and not very fuel efficient. But more concerning is that under some driving circumstances, even in serial mode the power output with a depleted battery is not enough to maintain your speed. Don't forget, it is only 60 kW at best! The battery will be depleted even further, until management steps in. And at that moment propulsion power will be limited and you will be "crawling" up hill.

Now the thing is, the above is probably more related to frontal surface of the caravan (and drag) rather than weight. And my caravan is 'only' 2.30 m wide. Had Mitsubishi set the towing limit to 2000 kg, I think a lot of people would have tried towing 2.50 m caravans with it. And I don't think that that would be a good idea. Knowing what I know, I will never try this. At least not for other than local trips.

BTW: The PHEV was first introduced with a tow rating of 1600 kg in the Netherlands, but this was reduced to 1500 kg before they started taking orders. Must have been a reason for this.

Some more thoughts:

I believe legislation says hill start at 12% must be mastered three times within a limited time span (15 minutes or so)

I think curb weight is not a factor perse. Outlander Diesel is not heavier than Outlander PHEV and can tow 2000 kg in the Netherlands. There have been Ford S-Maxes and Mondeos that could tow 2000 kg where others, with particular gear boxes, where limited to 800 kg.

Why would the braking system of the PHEV be less than that of a conventional Outlander? The fact that you have regen braking means less load on the conventional brakes and to the best of my knowledge, there is no single indication that the conventional brakes on a PHEV are any less than those on a conventional Outlander.

Fine, i wrote an e-mail To Mitsubishi motors canada, Will wait their repli, the tow bar they are selling here is rated at 1800kg, i may tow about 1400kg twice a year for about 210km.

Just got the spec of the tests they make To determine the towing capacity in America, kinda harsh tests!

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

Skim-read some of that. Interesting to see they have acceleration requirements. I've never heard of that in UK, however, certain aspects of the US highway layout seem to be designed with an assumption of better acceleration - especially freeway slip roads (on-ramps) are often much shorter than the ones on UK motorways, so you need to be able to more quickly accelerate to a safe merging speed.

Steve

Its logic, but reducing the towing capacity from 1500 to 680kg is a lot, 680kg is limit for me to tow my tent trailer, and my platform trailer with the 2 atv will weigth about 750-800kg.

...or perhaps it's just that the 650kg limit is for unbraked trailers?

In NZ it is 750kg.

Thread on it here:
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1709&hilit=zealand

Got a reply from mitsubishi canada, the towing capacity is 680kg, no matter if we use electric brakes, the sae tests are harsh to pass

GACD has described a technical background that sounds pretty plausible to me.
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1709&start=30
The link leads directly to page 4 of the thread linked by vs2 already.

Here in the USA, the PHEV is only rated to tow 1500 lbs. with trailer brakes or 1250 lbs. without trailer brakes. My boat and trailer weigh about 2500 lbs., but I won't be towing it very far.

generaltso said:

Here in the USA, the PHEV is only rated to tow 1500 lbs. with trailer brakes or 1250 lbs. without trailer brakes. My boat and trailer weigh about 2500 lbs., but I won't be towing it very far.

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Of course it will be able to tow your load since it can tow 3500lbs in Europe, but it would be illégal, in case of an accident the insurance might not want to pat!

Bobpogoman said:

Of course it will be able to tow your load since it can tow 3500lbs in Europe

Click to expand...

With all due respect, this is only true under the assumption that the cars are technically the same. As an unlikely example, maybe Mitsubishi decided to install an enhanced ICE cooling system on the EU models, as they know EU people are very fond of using family cars for towing? Not suggesting this is really the case. Just saying we should be careful with assumptions.