Trex
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia

The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:05 pm

Hi,

As a follow on to my thread "Do not be scared of using that charge button" see http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/vi ... f=9&t=3430 I was asked a few times about using the technique I brought up of using the Charge Button to avoid series mode later in town or cities. I wish to discuss this here.

Now I will say this right now, I cannot come up with a strict set of rules for everyone's trips in the PHEV. But I can give you some guidelines that work for me. I hope they work for you too IF you want to try them. :)

Now I will first bring in another graph or as I call them "pretty pictures" :lol:

Image

Now please read the 4th paragraph where it starts "When the drive battery SOC (State Of Charge).................

Here it actually tells us about what we were talking about in the charge button thread of having a lightly loaded petrol motor and charging up the drive battery.

It also talks about that blue oval area of the graph being the most efficient area of fuel consumption for driving the PHEV. ie 65 to 120kph. This is also a speed where the PHEV will MOSTLY travel in Parallel mode and also WHEN the petrol motor stops the PHEV goes into EV mode.

Now knowing everything that Mitsubishi have shown with their graphs and what they say above we should IMO avoid series mode by being in EV mode below 65kph as much as possible and my own fuel consumption figures back that up.

But that is not all I do. I totally avoid driving around with a full drive battery.

This is from a thread I wrote some years ago:
Trex wrote:Hi folks,

This will be the last test I will do for awhile. I hope it helps everyone. :)

I picked the flattest area around here ( and it is very flat across the river valley here) on the dual lane freeway (in each direction) that runs past our small city. It is made up of approx. 12kms of 100kph zone and 10km of 110kph zone. I picked that stretch for its easy turn around at each end as well as being flat.

So the test consisted of driving in one direction then the other followed by a quick turnaround at each end. Traffic was light. I sat on 105kph . I used cruise control the whole time except at each end when I was turning around.

Now this is the same as I did the other night but more scientifically ie I ran both directions fully before taking measurements to allow for any wind or elevation changes. I have not, I repeat not done that before. :oops:

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

Press Save at 8 bars. 9 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 7 bars. 8 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 6 bars. 7 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 4 bars. 5 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

At 1 bars (normal mode). 1 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

Note No AC or heater on.

Note The B5 amounts are Regen that I could get at the end of the runs with the paddles set to B5 when turning around.

Note Where I said the petrol motor never stopped it only stopped at each end of the run where I turned around.

Note Where the Petrol motor stopped I read it at the same point of the hybrid cycle.

Note I could not do this test more scientifically without putting it on a dyno. :geek:

Note I have just lost 6 hrs out of my life. :o

Note There are no more Notes. :lol:

Regards Trex.
Now as can be seen from above, fuel savings can be made by not driving around with a full battery and because I live close to the freeway on ramp I actually drop some of the drive battery charge on the freeway at speed to get down to at least 11 bars (out of 16) on the MMCS display to get the biggest drop in fuel consumption (and the highest regen as seen above) and will charge it back up before getting to the next town to avoid series mode.

The figure I always remember is at 100-110kph it takes my PHEV a 1/2 hour to charge the drive battery back up to 1/2 a charge ie 50%. That tells me when I need to push the charge button before getting to the next town.

I hope I explained it well enough. :)

Whether you can use these tips on your trips away from the grid I will leave up to you. 8-)

Ask those questions if you do not understand and I will try to explain it better.

Regards Trex.

Harald
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 am
Location: Austria

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:13 am

Thank you Trex, appreciate your efforts.

Comments:

The diagram would be better if horizontal and vertical axis would be defined as "speed in km/h" and "torque in Nm"...
But I am sure that MMCS has just built the "pretty pictures" as they are and you've just copied them.

It also makes good sense to maintain higher state of charge (SOC) when driving in the mountains.
Otherwise, the available total power will be limited when the SOC is too low.

Best regards, Harald

AndyH
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:26 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:13 am

Beautiful work, Trex - thank you!

Is the Mitsubishi doc available to the public? (Or...how much of it is posted in your sticky in Tech?)
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive "The Bumblebee" (returned at end of lease)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

Trex
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:55 pm

Harald wrote:Thank you Trex, appreciate your efforts.
Hi Harald,

Thanks for that. :)
Harald wrote:
Comments:

The diagram would be better if horizontal and vertical axis would be defined as "speed in km/h" and "torque in Nm"...
But I am sure that MMCS has just built the "pretty pictures" as they are and you've just copied them.
Yes Mitsubishi was lazy not labelling their graph properly. I could fix that if people want me to?

Sorry for throwing those acronyms around and not thinking about our newer members. :oops:

MMCS stands for Multi Media Communication System. That's the display in the centre of the PHEV.

MMC is Mitsubishi Motors Corporation which is headquartered in Japan.
Harald wrote: It also makes good sense to maintain higher state of charge (SOC) when driving in the mountains.
Otherwise, the available total power will be limited when the SOC is too low.
Yes I totally agree. I regularly have to climb the Great Dividing Range just west of where I live, and if I take the PHEV, I need approx 50% just to get up it.

But the good thing about it is I NEARLY get all that charge back coming back down in regen. :D

It is a good thing that Mitsubishi Motors Corporation have given us the tools (or buttons) to control that SOC. ;)

Regards Trex.
Last edited by Trex on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Trex
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:25 pm

AndyH wrote:Beautiful work, Trex - thank you!
Hi AndyH,

Thank you kind sir. :oops:
AndyH wrote: Is the Mitsubishi doc available to the public? (Or...how much of it is posted in your sticky in Tech?)
The newer images in the sticky are from a pdf I got from my dealer some time ago. I think your dealer will have something similar to help train them in the PHEV systems. Suggest getting down on your knees and beg them for a copy of it.
I did.:o :oops: :lol:

The others were from a pdf anko kindly gave me long before that and is written in Dutch.

I have put all what I consider the "best" bits in. There is more about the Petrol motor fuel control etc and if people want I could add some more.

But I do NOT consider it "my" sticky. I would like to consider it ours. :) I hope others can add to it. :D I would love to see some of the changes made for the North American version of the PHEV. ;)

Regards Trex.

ps Good to see the North Americans now coming on the forum. Its about time that Mitsubishi sold the PHEV over there. It certainly took them long enough. :roll:

Ah Texas. I flew into El Paso (every time I say El Paso I think of Marty Robbins :lol:. I love that song. :D ) once and hired a car and drove around a little of your State.

Bloody great memories. :D

AndyH
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:26 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:54 am

Trex wrote:ps Good to see the North Americans now coming on the forum. Its about time that Mitsubishi sold the PHEV over there. It certainly took them long enough. :roll:
No doubt! My arms were getting pretty tired waiving a rubber chicken over a pile of lithium cells to spur Mitsubishi along. :lol:
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive "The Bumblebee" (returned at end of lease)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

Trex
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:51 pm

AndyH wrote:
Trex wrote:ps Good to see the North Americans now coming on the forum. Its about time that Mitsubishi sold the PHEV over there. It certainly took them long enough. :roll:
No doubt! My arms were getting pretty tired waiving a rubber chicken over a pile of lithium cells to spur Mitsubishi along. :lol:
:lol: :lol:

Sorry, I missed this until now. The image in my head you have conjured up with that statement may take me a while to forget. :lol:

But I may have been too hard on Mitsi when I made that statement.

From the little research I have done it may have been your rules or regs that held things up for you Nth Americans.

But anyway, I hope the PHEV sells well over there.:)

oscarmax
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:22 am

Trex wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:05 pm
Hi,

As a follow on to my thread "Do not be scared of using that charge button" see http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/vi ... f=9&t=3430 I was asked a few times about using the technique I brought up of using the Charge Button to avoid series mode later in town or cities. I wish to discuss this here.

Now I will say this right now, I cannot come up with a strict set of rules for everyone's trips in the PHEV. But I can give you some guidelines that work for me. I hope they work for you too IF you want to try them. :)

Now I will first bring in another graph or as I call them "pretty pictures" :lol:

Image

Now please read the 4th paragraph where it starts "When the drive battery SOC (State Of Charge).................

Here it actually tells us about what we were talking about in the charge button thread of having a lightly loaded petrol motor and charging up the drive battery.

It also talks about that blue oval area of the graph being the most efficient area of fuel consumption for driving the PHEV. ie 65 to 120kph. This is also a speed where the PHEV will MOSTLY travel in Parallel mode and also WHEN the petrol motor stops the PHEV goes into EV mode.

Now knowing everything that Mitsubishi have shown with their graphs and what they say above we should IMO avoid series mode by being in EV mode below 65kph as much as possible and my own fuel consumption figures back that up.

But that is not all I do. I totally avoid driving around with a full drive battery.

This is from a thread I wrote some years ago:
Trex wrote:Hi folks,

This will be the last test I will do for awhile. I hope it helps everyone. :)

I picked the flattest area around here ( and it is very flat across the river valley here) on the dual lane freeway (in each direction) that runs past our small city. It is made up of approx. 12kms of 100kph zone and 10km of 110kph zone. I picked that stretch for its easy turn around at each end as well as being flat.

So the test consisted of driving in one direction then the other followed by a quick turnaround at each end. Traffic was light. I sat on 105kph . I used cruise control the whole time except at each end when I was turning around.

Now this is the same as I did the other night but more scientifically ie I ran both directions fully before taking measurements to allow for any wind or elevation changes. I have not, I repeat not done that before. :oops:

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

Press Save at 8 bars. 9 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 7 bars. 8 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 6 bars. 7 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 4 bars. 5 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

At 1 bars (normal mode). 1 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

Note No AC or heater on.

Note The B5 amounts are Regen that I could get at the end of the runs with the paddles set to B5 when turning around.

Note Where I said the petrol motor never stopped it only stopped at each end of the run where I turned around.

Note Where the Petrol motor stopped I read it at the same point of the hybrid cycle.

Note I could not do this test more scientifically without putting it on a dyno. :geek:

Note I have just lost 6 hrs out of my life. :o

Note There are no more Notes. :lol:

Regards Trex.
Now as can be seen from above, fuel savings can be made by not driving around with a full battery and because I live close to the freeway on ramp I actually drop some of the drive battery charge on the freeway at speed to get down to at least 11 bars (out of 16) on the MMCS display to get the biggest drop in fuel consumption (and the highest regen as seen above) and will charge it back up before getting to the next town to avoid series mode.

The figure I always remember is at 100-110kph it takes my PHEV a 1/2 hour to charge the drive battery back up to 1/2 a charge ie 50%. That tells me when I need to push the charge button before getting to the next town.

I hope I explained it well enough. :)

Whether you can use these tips on your trips away from the grid I will leave up to you. 8-)

Ask those questions if you do not understand and I will try to explain it better.

Regards Trex.
Trex I have been studying your post, we have recently brought a new 2.4 PHEV and tow a 1500kg caravan, the first time out in July we towed 180 miles, as were were very early and heard horror stories of 17mpg and turtle mode we set the speed limiter at 50 mph let the battery run down to 5 miles left, then use the charge button for a majority of the journey, the battery eventually recovered to 8 miles, we had no heating on weather about 15 degrees C we achieved 26.6 mpg.

On the way back it was raining hard 50% of the journey, we had to demist the windscreen, but travelled at 55 mph instead of 50, and left 40/45% charge in the battery ,our fuel consumption improved to 27.3.

On the journey down we messed around with B2/B5 on the way back we left in in B5
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

Fjpod
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:09 am

@ oscar
Don't forget to take into account that going one way, your journey may have been a bit uphill and down on the return....
Previous prius and imiev owner.

oscarmax
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:12 am

Fjpod wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:09 am
@ oscar
Don't forget to take into account that going one way, your journey may have been a bit uphill and down on the return....
No its about the same both ways our previous For Kuga diesel (Am I allowed to mention that word) used to record 28.3 both ways fill to fill.
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

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