Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
Hi folks,

Now from reading some of the comments here I get the impression that some think that B0 on the paddles is using no energy from our drive batteries ie B0 = no regen, so no power in or out of the drive (or traction) battery.

Now I can see why people would think that because some of our gauges are not showing any power being used or added to the battery when in B0. For example on the MMCS power dial on my oldest PHEV at 60kph it takes approx 7.5 kW of power to hold that speed, as shown on the MMCS dial, travelling on the relatively flat road here with no AC or heating. But when I lift my foot off the accelerator in B0 it show 0 kW is being used on the dial. :shock:

Now here is the problem. To make a electric motor "freewheel" (or 2 in our case being the front axle and back axle motors) or get rid of the "drag" of an electric motor as seen in B0 requires power. Sure not as much as that 7.5 kW I mentioned previously but it is there.

Now lets look at some examples. Now we must first remember that just turning on my PHEV costs me .33 kW (or 330 Watts) of power as seen by the EVbatmon app. This is not moving as in being in Park or Neutral on the transmission, no AC, no heating, and no lights etc. We can talk about these what I call "standby" loads later if you want to but they are there and include items, from memory, like the EV Cooling System etc.

Now at 60 kph I see approx 1.29 kW of power in B0 so subtract that .33 kW I was talking about above give us approx .96 kW (or 960 Watts) of power being pulled from our drive battery. Now we should also remember that approx .746 kW ( or 746 Watts ) is 1 hp (or 1 horse power ) so its not a insignificant amount IMO

Now at 110 kph I see approx 2.54 kW of power being used in B0. Subtract that .33 kW again gives us approx 2.21 kW of power just to "freewheel" those electric motors.

Now I put that freewheel in brackets purposely ie "freewheel" because there is still a little "drag" in those electric motors that Mitsubishi is not getting rid of completely in B0 it would seem.

An example is in Parallel mode at 110 kph on my PHEV I see approx 4.4 - 4.87 kW. Subtract that .33 kW again so approx 4.07 to 4.54 kW of power Mitsubishi provide to the electric motors to get rid of the drag of them at speed.

Why am showing such varied amount above ie 4.4 - 4.87 kW. It is because I am looking at two different gauges on the EVbatmon app. One is Power out ( power from or to the drive battery ) and another is Gen power (Generator power) and I am trying to memorise them (to write them down later) while driving by myself and they are varying a small amount all the time even on the very flat road I drive to measure them.

I have also not mentioned there are some losses in the conversion of DC to AC here and we can talk about that later as well if you like.

Now I have again purposely kept this reasonably non technical, I hope :? , in nature for this General section of the forum. For example I am trying not bring up terms like Back emf in electric motors ect to make it easier for us all to understand. Please do not frightened of those power terms I used like kW or watts or hp. Being scared to show your ignorance of such matters is quite normal IMHO but you should try and fight that impulse and ask questions. We were all beginners once.

So hopefully I have helped some people here learn a little more about the PHEV because I am still learning new "stuff" about it myself nearly all the time. :)

Ps Now I was in quite a hurry to write this, so I may have been a little rushed in my explanation, so again please ask those question if you do not understand me and I will try harder in my followup explanations. But as I have said before I am not a teacher as such. I am just a lowly engineer that has to deal with this sort of "stuff" nearly everyday of my professional life so it is hard for me to explain it easily for others. I really hope I did not stuff up too badly here in this topic. :?

Regards Trex.

Wow :o :oops: lots of edits in spelling and pronunciations to fix up in my rushed explanation. My bad.


Last edited by Trex on Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
Now as some would know I love "pretty pictures" :lol: and I mentioned the EV Cooling System above in my first post in this thread I will show these:

The PHEV's EV Cooling System,
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Images from Mitsubishi Motors.

Regards Trex.


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Trex, this is so 2018 :lol:

Please see my comments on below video.

Btw: the Power gauge is NOT wrong as it shows mechanical power, not electrical power :ugeek:
https://youtu.be/IQeMVTG77OQ


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Oh, and please try the same in N :?:


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
anko wrote:

Btw: the Power gauge is NOT wrong as it shows mechanical power, not electrical power


:lol: :lol:

Do you want to bet your balls on that statement. :ugeek: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Trex wrote:
anko wrote:

Btw: the Power gauge is NOT wrong as it shows mechanical power, not electrical power


:lol: :lol:

Do you want to bet your balls on that statement. :ugeek: :lol:
You mean, you don't agree? :shock:

- edit - Neither do I, I think. IIRC, with both the throttle and brake pedals depressed, the power needle is not 0, where RPM (and thus mechanical power) is 0. But other than that, yeah I think it reflects mechanical power more than electrical power.


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
anko wrote:
Trex wrote:
anko wrote:

Btw: the Power gauge is NOT wrong as it shows mechanical power, not electrical power


:lol: :lol:

Do you want to bet your balls on that statement. :ugeek: :lol:
You mean, you don't agree? :shock:


Depending which power gauge you are writing about old mate. ;)

MMCS or centre display?


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
I though the there was only one "THE Power gauge". But if not clear: Center Display.

- edit - I now see you referred to MMCS explicitly. Missed that completely :oops: Personally, I never bothered with the MMCS dial, as my own tools give a much higher resolution (both in sample rate as in value), so I am not sure what I think about the MMCS dial.


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:22 am
Posts: 3
Location: Ireland
B0 offers less resistance than even D.
Here’s how to test. While coasting, use the paddles to go to B0. Note the level of resistance in the blue end of the gaugue (both in cluster and mmcs). Now while coasting, hold the right paddle to shift to D. Note the gaugues again. More resistance, more regen energy.

D has a degree of regen capability built in. Closer to B2 or B1. Generally you should only use B0 at the end of a coast if you want to creep up in traffic without slowing down too much.

Try it yoursef. Coasting in B0 has no real benefits despite being recommended all across this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: B0. Sometimes our gauges are not quite right IMO.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:37 am
Posts: 527
Location: Bucks
D performs exactly the same as B2 - only the display is different :)

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