Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

It is currently Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:12 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Saratoga, CA
The last time I changed the oil, the lab found very little fuel in it, and so this time, when I sent my sample in (at 6k miles instead of 5k), I asked them whether they thought I could go to a 10k mile OCI. Well this time, they found 4.5% fuel dilution, which is more than double what they found the first time (albeit that was only after around 3700 miles) and they basically told me no, don't do it.

It looks like the Outlander PHEV has big problems with fuel dilution in the oil reservoir, to the extent that it definitely makes the oil unusable beyond 7500 miles.

Attachment:
18 OUTLANDER OIL ANALYSIS-30Sep2019.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:17 am
Posts: 116
To be fair, it only says that yours does, I would think a sample of more than one would be required to make that claim.
Also would think it makes a big difference on usage of the engine, and in this type of car this can vary much more than a traditional straight ICE engine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 4454
Location: Netherlands
Weird that the large number of vehicles in Europe, which use a 20.000 km oil change interval, don't exhibit any abnormal engine wear at all. :roll: My car never exhibited rising oil levels on the dipstick and it has had six oil changes. 130.000 km.

_________________
Instyle+ 2013
Titanium Grey
Off-white leather
Body kit
Protection kit
TPMS
Skidplates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Saratoga, CA
Craigy wrote:
To be fair, it only says that yours does, I would think a sample of more than one would be required to make that claim.
Also would think it makes a big difference on usage of the engine, and in this type of car this can vary much more than a traditional straight ICE engine.


First off, there are 3 sample points in that report, going all the way back to last year, and the values have been all over the map, from 2.0%, to a trace amount, to 4.5%. Hence my statement that the problem "is back".

Also, no one here is helping us get more data points. Why am I the only one who has posted oil analysis results? Why don't some others post their results so we can see if this is a consistent issue across all vehicles?

As I have said before, PHEVs tend to suffer from fuel dilution issues much more than pure ICE and HEVs. The oil doesn't reach operating temperature and stay there long enough due to use of the battery, which might result in a need for more frequent oil changes.

jaapv wrote:
Weird that the large number of vehicles in Europe, which use a 20.000 km oil change interval, don't exhibit any abnormal engine wear at all. :roll: My car never exhibited rising oil levels on the dipstick and it has had six oil changes. 130.000 km.


How are these people determining that there's no abnormal engine wear? Generally, you will see elevated levels of metallic elements in the oil if that is happening. Or you have to open it up and look at the internal components. What did the lab results on yours say? That's the only real way you can determine how much fuel is getting into the oil. Because oil can burn or otherwise leak as well, and the two can offset each other. So, I'd be interested in seeing your lab report so we can compare.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:06 pm
Posts: 200
Location: My office is in Letchworth, UK
I can’t speak for the rest of Europe, but here in the UK, lab analysis of used engine oil is unheard of.

My average annual mileage for more than 30 years is 40,000pa, and I have driven cars from many brands. Most have been company cars but several have been my own where I have been paying all the bills, and it simply isn’t done here.

My PHEV shows 112,500 miles after 43 months. The ICE recently had the big 100k service and is in perfect working order. I am fastidious about checking the oil level every week, and it never changes. As for my battery, who knows? (Make that, don’t care).

I do recall a thread several months ago where the subject of synthetic oil was raised, and the matter of what passes as fully synthetic in the US was discussed. Here in Europe, we get true fully synthetic, but you get an inferior mix that doesn’t have the same properties.

You ask why the European contributors don’t post their lab results, well I suspect it’s the same reason I can’t -

_________________
Richard

GX3h+ From February 2016
Atlantic Grey
Based in Letchworth - 30K+ pa Company Car


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 4454
Location: Netherlands
STS134 wrote:
Craigy wrote:
To be fair, it only says that yours does, I would think a sample of more than one would be required to make that claim.
Also would think it makes a big difference on usage of the engine, and in this type of car this can vary much more than a traditional straight ICE engine.


First off, there are 3 sample points in that report, going all the way back to last year, and the values have been all over the map, from 2.0%, to a trace amount, to 4.5%. Hence my statement that the problem "is back".

Also, no one here is helping us get more data points. Why am I the only one who has posted oil analysis results? Why don't some others post their results so we can see if this is a consistent issue across all vehicles?

As I have said before, PHEVs tend to suffer from fuel dilution issues much more than pure ICE and HEVs. The oil doesn't reach operating temperature and stay there long enough due to use of the battery, which might result in a need for more frequent oil changes.

jaapv wrote:
Weird that the large number of vehicles in Europe, which use a 20.000 km oil change interval, don't exhibit any abnormal engine wear at all. :roll: My car never exhibited rising oil levels on the dipstick and it has had six oil changes. 130.000 km.


How are these people determining that there's no abnormal engine wear? Generally, you will see elevated levels of metallic elements in the oil if that is happening. Or you have to open it up and look at the internal components. What did the lab results on yours say? That's the only real way you can determine how much fuel is getting into the oil. Because oil can burn or otherwise leak as well, and the two can offset each other. So, I'd be interested in seeing your lab report so we can compare.
Well, if the engines - not one case reported- show no signs of excessive wear of wear with a fair proportion of the cars having run over 100.000 km up to much more, I think that is good enough for me. I wouldn't know where to get such a report done either. It is unheard of. If I asked my dealer it would produce uncomprehending to funny stares.
I do live in a harbour area. There is one laboratory in the country that does such an analysis - for marine engines in seagoing vessels. As I don't drive a Supertanker they would be rather surprised by my request. :roll:

_________________
Instyle+ 2013
Titanium Grey
Off-white leather
Body kit
Protection kit
TPMS
Skidplates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:17 am
Posts: 116
STS134 wrote:
First off, there are 3 sample points in that report, going all the way back to last year, and the values have been all over the map, from 2.0%, to a trace amount, to 4.5%. Hence my statement that the problem "is back".


But it’s the same engine for all three samples, so still a sample of one unit, this is the claim I was referring to:
Quote:
It looks like the Outlander PHEV has big problems with fuel dilution in the oil reservoir, to the extent that it definitely makes the oil unusable beyond 7500 miles.


And as others have mentioned there haven’t been any known issues.

STS134 wrote:
Also, no one here is helping us get more data points. Why am I the only one who has posted oil analysis results? Why don't some others post their results so we can see if this is a consistent issue across all vehicles?


And as others have said this is totally alien to us here, nobody is going to do this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 4454
Location: Netherlands
And it is not an issue, so certainly not consistent... :roll: This has a very high "the sky may fall" content to me.

_________________
Instyle+ 2013
Titanium Grey
Off-white leather
Body kit
Protection kit
TPMS
Skidplates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 2:50 pm
Posts: 226
Location: New York, USA
Steel188 wrote:
I can’t speak for the rest of Europe, but here in the UK, lab analysis of used engine oil is unheard of.
...
You ask why the European contributors don’t post their lab results, well I suspect it’s the same reason I can’t -


I spent 30 seconds on Google and found this: https://www.lubemonitrix.ie/product-cat ... uto-mobile
Sorry I know Ireland is not part of UK, but I'm sure if you searched, there's got to be more around.

_________________
Woodman
Possible future owner of ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Fuel Dilution Problem Is Back
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:06 pm
Posts: 200
Location: My office is in Letchworth, UK
I and others aren’t saying the service doesn’t exist here, it does and is easily found on Google, our point is that oil analysis is not something that is done on this side of the Pond.

We had a chat about this at work today, 6 people (ranging from 24 to 63 years old), all with different cars, 2 of whom came from a company that manufactured machines to test the performance of diesel engines, and not one of them had heard of this kind of thing and don’t feel the urge to find out either. :D

_________________
Richard

GX3h+ From February 2016
Atlantic Grey
Based in Letchworth - 30K+ pa Company Car


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
© Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group