Cividan
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:20 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:But you're ignoring that tyre pressures vary hugely during use. I'm sure that a few ill-informed people would be letting air out of tyres because the pressure shown is too high after a long run.

Also the system has to have some slack built into it to allow for the increase. The engineers have chosen a figure that they believe is safe - do you know better than the experts on the car?
Not saying that we know more or less but just saying that I have a 2017 chevrolet Cruze and I can see the tire pressure from all 4 tire when scrolling into the menu. TPMS warning will come out if a tire goes too low (never had a too high so don't know if it would alarm on that situation) saying to check the tire pressure and would then display me the tire pressure screen showing me which of the 4 tire is too low. So I have to agree that the job was left hanging after 95% completion and very little effort would have been needed to display the information on screen.
Outlander PHEV 2019 (Us & Canada version)
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada

STS134
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:31 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:But you're ignoring that tyre pressures vary hugely during use. I'm sure that a few ill-informed people would be letting air out of tyres because the pressure shown is too high after a long run.

Also the system has to have some slack built into it to allow for the increase. The engineers have chosen a figure that they believe is safe - do you know better than the experts on the car?
Are you somehow implying that people who purchase the Outlander PHEV are significantly less intelligent than people who purchase other makes and models, and somehow using this alleged fact it to justify Mitsubishi's half assing the display capabilities of the TPMS? Because apparently many other manufacturers place more trust in their customers' ability to analyze data. Even my mom's Camry from back in 2015/2016 displays the individual pressures of each tire at all times in the center display on the instrument panel, if you select the proper option. And yes, you can see the pressures rise as the tires heat up, and fall as they cool down.

greendwarf
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:30 am

STS134 wrote:
ThudnBlundr wrote:But you're ignoring that tyre pressures vary hugely during use. I'm sure that a few ill-informed people would be letting air out of tyres because the pressure shown is too high after a long run.

Also the system has to have some slack built into it to allow for the increase. The engineers have chosen a figure that they believe is safe - do you know better than the experts on the car?
Are you somehow implying that people who purchase the Outlander PHEV are significantly less intelligent than people who purchase other makes and models, and somehow using this alleged fact it to justify Mitsubishi's half assing the display capabilities of the TPMS? Because apparently many other manufacturers place more trust in their customers' ability to analyze data. Even my mom's Camry from back in 2015/2016 displays the individual pressures of each tire at all times in the center display on the instrument panel, if you select the proper option. And yes, you can see the pressures rise as the tires heat up, and fall as they cool down.
At the risk of being pedantic, you keep saying the car's "computer" knows the individual tyre pressures but don't provide any "proof" that this is true. As I pointed out, TPMS was NOT implemented in the launch PHEV, so has been added in later. If you are right, then there would have been no reason not to include it initially, but if it is a separate "add-on" system, then you might be wrong. :idea:

I am aware that the US market expects to have individual tyre pressures and location displayed but I don't know how long it has been a common feature there - perhaps you could enlighten us? However, AFAIK it is a novel concept in Europe (and possibly Japan) - again perhaps other readers can confirm this, as I had the same Toyota for 16 years before the PHEV so may have missed its general introduction prior to 2014?

ThudnBlundr
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:41 am

STS134 wrote:
ThudnBlundr wrote:But you're ignoring that tyre pressures vary hugely during use. I'm sure that a few ill-informed people would be letting air out of tyres because the pressure shown is too high after a long run.

Also the system has to have some slack built into it to allow for the increase. The engineers have chosen a figure that they believe is safe - do you know better than the experts on the car?
Are you somehow implying that people who purchase the Outlander PHEV are significantly less intelligent than people who purchase other makes and models, and somehow using this alleged fact it to justify Mitsubishi's half assing the display capabilities of the TPMS? Because apparently many other manufacturers place more trust in their customers' ability to analyze data. Even my mom's Camry from back in 2015/2016 displays the individual pressures of each tire at all times in the center display on the instrument panel, if you select the proper option. And yes, you can see the pressures rise as the tires heat up, and fall as they cool down.
Don't be a dick - you know I didn't say that and you are simply trolling. Congratulations - now I know what type of person you are and that you say things just to piss people off.

Someone dumb does something dumb in every country. It's often only in the US that they successfully sue and cause car makers to react. "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" doesn't feature on most (?any) cars sold in Europe
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STS134
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:23 am

greendwarf wrote: At the risk of being pedantic, you keep saying the car's "computer" knows the individual tyre pressures but don't provide any "proof" that this is true.
TPMS works by placing a sensor in each tire, which transmits the pressure within that tire to the vehicle. And if the computer is alerting to low pressures, it would have to know the pressures. The only system I am aware of that does not actually know pressures is the indirect TPMS system, which uses the number of times a tire rotates as a proxy for (relative) pressure, and operates through the ABS. But the Outlander has a direct TPMS system, which I proved when I pumped up the tire and the low tire pressure light disappeared immediately.
greendwarf wrote: As I pointed out, TPMS was NOT implemented in the launch PHEV, so has been added in later. If you are right, then there would have been no reason not to include it initially, but if it is a separate "add-on" system, then you might be wrong. :idea:
You're now suggesting that they strapped an "add-on" system that does the receiving, AND has its own CPU to do the processing, and then simply sends an alert to the main computer if one of the pressures gets too low? I suppose it's possible, but that would be even more expensive. Plus, they actually implemented an "A"/"B" tire set function through the user interface, where you can tell the system that you want to change the set of tires you have on the vehicle (I'm guessing this is for winter tires).
greendwarf wrote: I am aware that the US market expects to have individual tyre pressures and location displayed but I don't know how long it has been a common feature there - perhaps you could enlighten us? However, AFAIK it is a novel concept in Europe (and possibly Japan) - again perhaps other readers can confirm this, as I had the same Toyota for 16 years before the PHEV so may have missed its general introduction prior to 2014?
TPMS was required in the US starting in 2014. My old car was a 2000 model and had no TPMS. Up until I purchased the PHEV, I thought that all TPMS systems displayed individual pressures, but apparently some cars do and some cars don't. On Toyota, I believe the Camry XLE submodel displays individual pressures, while the LE does not. Nissan seems to display individual pressures in at least some of their models, regardless of trim (i.e. the Rogue) and Porsche also displays individual pressures in their Cayenne (so no, I don't think it's a European thing to not do this).

STS134
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:20 am

ThudnBlundr wrote: Don't be a dick - you know I didn't say that and you are simply trolling. Congratulations - now I know what type of person you are and that you say things just to piss people off.

Someone dumb does something dumb in every country. It's often only in the US that they successfully sue and cause car makers to react. "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" doesn't feature on most (?any) cars sold in Europe
The threshold chosen has almost nothing to do with what the engineers thought was safe. It is a legislative requirement to turn on the error light when the pressure falls 25% below the recommended inflation pressure. 24-25 psi is right along that legislative requirement. And if you read any literature on the issue, they'll always tell you not to rely on TPMS alerts to know when to inflate your tires because by the time you get an alert, your tires are already unsafe. Therefore, being able to see individual pressures makes the system much more useful.
Last edited by STS134 on Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jaapv
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:20 am

Would you really talk to somebody that way if he were in a position to punch you in the nose?
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STS134
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:24 pm

jaapv wrote:Would you really talk to somebody that way if he were in a position to punch you in the nose?
If it were a conversation in person, I'd have asked him why he insists on defending the indefensible: a manufacturer having all of the data in the computer, and failing to display it. This car is full of examples of this type of behavior, and TPMS is just one of many. Why can't I see the coolant temps except by using OBDII? How am I supposed to be able to tell if there's some sort of problem with the cooling system and it's running a bit hot, but not enough for the system to throw an error? One thing that really pisses me off is when engineers think they know better than the operator and withhold some information from him or her. We've seen the devastating consequences of this in two Boeing 737 MAX crashes resulting in 300+ deaths.

jaapv
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:30 pm

Well, I think the likelihood of the lack of tyre pressure indication to cause 300 deaths is rather close to zero... :roll: Personally I couldn't care less. For less than 100$ you can install an aftermarket system, if so desired.
Still , it does not justify going into Internet-bashing mode.
I know that there are politicians who promote sub-adolescent pejorative epithet-slinging as a valid way to have a debate, but I should hope that members here are more adult than that.
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STS134
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Re: TPMS on the PHEV - no pressures, what a joke!

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:25 pm

jaapv wrote:Well, I think the likelihood of the lack of tyre pressure indication to cause 300 deaths is rather close to zero... :roll:
Will you agree that having blowouts on the freeway can lead to deaths, and not having information on tire pressures at all times can lead to blowouts? That's the real issue here. It wouldn't have been much effort to just display this info on one of the menus you can scroll through, just like it wouldn't have been an issue to put the coolant temp in a small area of the instrument panel. They just didn't do it because they were too cheap/lazy and it is possible that some people will get killed because of it.

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