ThudnBlundr
Posts: 765
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK

Re: Advice for a long drive

Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:50 am

Don't forget that the charging gets less efficient as the battery gets above 60%, so the ICE might not be able to run in its most efficient envelope. So I do much the same as you, except that I switch to SAVE if the battery gets too full.
2015 GX4hs since 03/18
2015 Renault Zoe R240 owner since 11/17

You may have speed, but I have momentum...Image

oscarmax
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: Advice for a long drive

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:30 pm

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:50 am
Don't forget that the charging gets less efficient as the battery gets above 60%, so the ICE might not be able to run in its most efficient envelope. So I do much the same as you, except that I switch to SAVE if the battery gets too full.
+1 works for me
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

kpetrov
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Advice for a long drive

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:24 am

ChrisMiller wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:09 am
kpetrov wrote: If you use SAVE, be sure that it engages parallel mode. My do not and keeps the vehicle in series mode which is a waste.
The driver has no direct control over which mode is in use, it's decided by the car's electronics. Parallel mode uses a direct drive from the engine to the front wheels, and so is only available at sufficiently high speeds (so that the engine isn't under-revving), typically ~45mph/70kph. At most speeds (below ~75mph/120kph*) maximum power is via series mode (as the revs at which parallel mode forces the engine to run don't correspond to maximum power output), so if you floor the throttle the car will go into series mode.

You can demonstrate this (where road conditions are safe to do so, like joining a relatively empty motorway) by flooring the throttle from stationary - the car will remain in parallel mode up to ~75mph. With more gentle use of the accelerator, the car will select parallel mode as soon as it's available (~45mph).

I haven't experimented to see if the use of Save/Charge changes this description, but I don't see why it should.

* these numbers could be slightly different for the newer models with the 2.3l engine, but I think the principle is unchanged
The driver has no direct control but the vehicle show you in which mode you are and if in SAVE it keeps it in series like mine is doing better switch to CHARGE then parallel is certain in speed over 41mph. (under some conditions of course)
https://www.facebook.com/kbpetrov/posts ... 7302894911
I am not arguing when maximum power is available here. The question was regarding the most efficient way to drive it on the highway.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

ThudnBlundr
Posts: 765
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK

Re: Advice for a long drive

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:56 am

That's odd. In SAVE, ours will use either parallel or series depending on the speed, just like normal.
2015 GX4hs since 03/18
2015 Renault Zoe R240 owner since 11/17

You may have speed, but I have momentum...Image

kpetrov
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Advice for a long drive

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:23 am

Yep, it is odd. It's and that the same vehicles have a problem with ICE kicking in all the time when temperatures drop.
From what I know so far the problem is resolved after battery reset, smoothing and DBCAM procedure.

Anyway, this problem made my vehicle perfect to test the difference between parallel and series mode.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

Fjpod
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Advice for a long drive

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:19 pm

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:50 am
Don't forget that the charging gets less efficient as the battery gets above 60%, so the ICE might not be able to run in its most efficient envelope. So I do much the same as you, except that I switch to SAVE if the battery gets too full.
I agree that the battery takes less charge as it gets full, but some recent experimenting I have done with a Scanguage 2, shows that although the charge rate is slowing down, the instantaneous MPG goes up, so the energy is not going to waste,it goes directly to the drive wheels... Not a bad thing.
Previous prius and imiev owner.

kpetrov
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Advice for a long drive

Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:08 am

Fjpod wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:19 pm
ThudnBlundr wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:50 am
Don't forget that the charging gets less efficient as the battery gets above 60%, so the ICE might not be able to run in its most efficient envelope. So I do much the same as you, except that I switch to SAVE if the battery gets too full.
I agree that the battery takes less charge as it gets full, but some recent experimenting I have done with a Scanguage 2, shows that although the charge rate is slowing down, the instantaneous MPG goes up, so the energy is not going to waste,it goes directly to the drive wheels... Not a bad thing.
I thought if you go with a constant speed and the charge rate is slowing down the good thing will be if the instantaneous MPG goes down as well!
The energy that go to the drive wheels should be constant.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

Fjpod
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Advice for a long drive

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:48 am

kpetrov wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:08 am
Fjpod wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:19 pm
ThudnBlundr wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:50 am
Don't forget that the charging gets less efficient as the battery gets above 60%, so the ICE might not be able to run in its most efficient envelope. So I do much the same as you, except that I switch to SAVE if the battery gets too full.
I agree that the battery takes less charge as it gets full, but some recent experimenting I have done with a Scanguage 2, shows that although the charge rate is slowing down, the instantaneous MPG goes up, so the energy is not going to waste,it goes directly to the drive wheels... Not a bad thing.
I thought if you go with a constant speed and the charge rate is slowing down the good thing will be if the instantaneous MPG goes down as well!
The energy that go to the drive wheels should be constant.
So... the data from the scanguage does indicate that power to the drivewheels goes up slowly and steadily as the battery approaches full charge. Your foot on the accelerator is much more a factor for sudden changes.
Previous prius and imiev owner.

AndyInOz
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:05 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Advice for a long drive

Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:47 pm

Also the cruise control if you're using it.

I've noticed that mine is much more aggressive on the pedals than me, and results in a less smooth ride.
2014 PHEV Aspire, Arctic Silver;
Black Interior;
Hayman Reese removable tow bar;
1.5kW Solar, grid connected.

Trex
Posts: 879
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia

Re: Advice for a long drive

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:15 pm

Fjpod wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:48 am
kpetrov wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:08 am
Fjpod wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:19 pm

I agree that the battery takes less charge as it gets full, but some recent experimenting I have done with a Scanguage 2, shows that although the charge rate is slowing down, the instantaneous MPG goes up, so the energy is not going to waste,it goes directly to the drive wheels... Not a bad thing.
I thought if you go with a constant speed and the charge rate is slowing down the good thing will be if the instantaneous MPG goes down as well!
The energy that go to the drive wheels should be constant.
So... the data from the scanguage does indicate that power to the drivewheels goes up slowly and steadily as the battery approaches full charge. Your foot on the accelerator is much more a factor for sudden changes.
Sorry but I think you misunderstand what is happening in parallel mode. The clutch engages the petrol motor to the front wheels and that is it. There is no variation in the amount of power going to them from the drive battery level going up. Only thing that is varying is the amount of power going to the generator and because you are letting the battery charge reduce from getting it full you are probably putting the petrol motor in a less efficient area of operation. Hybrids like the Phev rely on having room in the drive battery to put that petrol motor into its most efficient area of operation where the throttle valve is fully open and induction losses are reduced. So if the load on the petrol motor to keep the speed you are travelling at is not enough to have the throttle valve fully open and there is room in the drive battery the Phev will generate electricity to charge up the drive battery and put extra load on the petrol motor and thus put it into a more efficient area of operation where the throttle valve is fully open to reduce those induction losses. It can then shut down that petrol motor after a certain amount of charge has been put in the drive battery and then travel in EV mode and use no petrol at all. If the drive battery is full or near full all you are doing is keeping the petrol motor running longer and not letting the Phev behave its most efficiently. The instantaneous fuel consumption may be showing lower while the motor is running but you need to look at the average fuel consumption over time where if it is behaving at its most efficiently when the petrol motor can charge up the drive battery in the shortest amount of time (when the drive battery is at lower levels) and then shut down and go into EV mode and repeat. The fuel consumption I am sure you will find will be lower over the length of the trip if you let the Phev behave in its most efficient way.

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