Does anyone believe the charge costs displayed in the MMCS?

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kentphev

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
78
Got home yesterday with an empty battery and left on charge. Later in the day unhooked power as the charge had finished and just had an idea to look at the charge history in the MMCS.

I've set my rate at £0.10/kWh and it told me the most recent charge cost just £0.53.

Empty to full in just 5kwh of usage? Can't be right. I double checked the 10p rate was still programmed in... Check.

I know it takes about 4-5 hrs to charge from empty and I was told the 13A charger pulls around 3kw. I would have expected to see around 12kwh or £1.20 for a full charge.

Anyone else seeing odd results?
 
My understanding is that the battery is 12kwh and 'empty' isn't actually empty is is about 30% SOC.
So assuming you needed to put in 9Kwh I would expect about 90p , but I am no expert !!

I dont think the 13a lead actually ever used the full 13A as the specs say 10a or 2.6kw
So your computer seems to indicate a couple of hours at 2.6kw?? :?:
 
Correct, the battery never fully discharges or fully charges. As it happens, I put a power monitor on the charger yesterday so that we can monitor the charge from inside the house. Empty battery to full took 7.747 kWh. Charging rate was 2.26kW.

Hope this helps.

NAPpy
 
True, you cannot expect 12 kWh to be charged. But, for a healthy battery, 7.747 kWh is not a full charge. You should think in terms of 9 - 9.5 kWh per full charge:

12 kWh * 70% (or a little bit more if you did a bit of city driving on your last power) + 5 % losses in the onboard charger + losses in your charging equipment / cables.
 
Well last night it was 8.1 kWh, I will see what it is tonight.

I thought the battery was -30-20% to + 80% charge?

Cheers

NAPpy
 
Well, the 20 - 30% for the low mark is about right. I think I remember you can go as low as 17 (posted a table of what happened at what mark myself earlier). But you really have to push it to go below 26% because when you reach 26% the engine will always start. So, to get below 26%, you must consistently draw more than 60 kW (which is supplied by the generator after losses). Not easy, unless you are climbing a steep hill fast or towing something heavy up a hill.

Or, you must park the car with depleted battery, make sure it stays detached from any change station and activate the preheat function :mrgreen:

The high mark is about 100%, if not exactly that. Some suggest, it is 100% of 12 kWh in the docs, but 80% of 15 kWh in real life. Who will tell.

Either way, in general you should have about 8.4 kWh of usable SOC ( (100% - 30%) * 12 kWh) . If the high mark was 80% of 12 kWh, you would have 50% of 12 kWh = 6 kWh. To get 52 km out of 6 kWh, the car would have to be able to do almost 9 km on 1 kWh. I don't see how that would be possible (under the circumstances used in testing).
 
anko said:
Well, the 20 - 30% for the low mark is about right. I think I remember you can go as low as 17 (posted a table of what happened at what mark myself earlier). But you really have to push it to go below 26% because when you reach 26% the engine will always start. So, to get below 26%, you must consistently draw more than 60 kW (which is supplied by the generator after losses). Not easy, unless you are climbing a steep hill fast or towing something heavy up a hill.

Or, you must park the car with depleted battery, make sure it stays detached from any change station and activate the preheat function :mrgreen:

The high mark is about 100%, if not exactly that. Some suggest, it is 100% of 12 kWh in the docs, but 80% of 15 kWh in real life. Who will tell.

Either way, in general you should have about 8.4 kWh of usable SOC ( (100% - 30%) * 12 kWh) . If the high mark was 80% of 12 kWh, you would have 50% of 12 kWh = 6 kWh. To get 52 km out of 6 kWh, the car would have to be able to do almost 9 km on 1 kWh. I don't see how that would be possible (under the circumstances used in testing).

Okay, thanks, our 8.1 last night was about on the ball park, lets see what tonight brings.

Cheers
 
LOL, odd though, I think empty is somewhere around not empty by a couple of kWh.

I know it was flat as tonight because I drove it 6km to get some Mr. Hengs for dinner and the ICE cut in up the hill to Mr. Hengs.

Final kWh post on the morrow!

NAPpy
 
anko said:
True, you cannot expect 12 kWh to be charged. But, for a healthy battery, 7.747 kWh is not a full charge. You should think in terms of 9 - 9.5 kWh per full charge:

12 kWh * 70% (or a little bit more if you did a bit of city driving on your last power) + 5 % losses in the onboard charger + losses in your charging equipment / cables.

My last full charge checked with a Voltcraft timer-energymeter

Hour kWh
1 2.20
2 2.21
3 1.99
4 2.19
5 0.76

Total 9,34 kWh (the "abnormal" 1.99 kWh in the third hour could be caused by a slight overheating detection ?)
 
Grigou said:
(the "abnormal" 1.99 kWh in the third hour could be caused by a slight overheating detection ?)
I assume it was caused by one of those 'breaks' that occur, about once every full charge. During these breaks, charging is reduced to about 100 watts or so. Samples:

b_141241.jpg


As they can also occur right at the beginning of the charging process, I believe the breaks occur to allow the BMU to balance the cells, rather than because of overheating.

I've seen situations where I was at home for only about 10 to 15 minutes, tried to pick up some extra charge and ended up with virtually nothing due to such a break that happened right at the beginning of charging. I've noticed you can terminate the break by briefly interrupting the charging process, but I don't think that is very healthy to the battery :mrgreen:
 
anko said:
it was caused by one of those 'breaks' that occur, about once every full charge. During these breaks, charging is reduced to about 100 watts or so.
anko said:
I've seen situations where I was at home for only about 10 to 15 minutes, tried to pick up some extra charge and ended up with virtually nothing due to such a break that happened right at the beginning of charging.
That could explain my experience this afternoon.

I arrived home from work with 5 miles remaining EV range shown on the guessometer. I plugged in for a sneaky top-up as I had to nip out again 25 minutes later.

When I did depart again, the guessometer was still only displaying 5 mile EV range, therefore my first thought was that it had not charged at all.
I checked the charge cost display, which indicated about 0.7kWh had gone in. This should have been more like 1.3kWh by my reckoning.

I managed to do my errand run on the remaining EV, but checked my charge meter before plugging in when I got back. After approximately 1hr, the car had taken 3.1kWh, about what I expect.
 
Looks like charge rate is dependent on voltage? Some are seeing around 2kw while others 3kw. Would this be the difference between 110 and 230v?
 
kentphev said:
Looks like charge rate is dependent on voltage? Some are seeing around 2kw while others 3kw. Would this be the difference between 110 and 230v?
I don't suppose that anyone on here has a 110v supply, as 110V nowadays is limited to the less developed countries like *cough* the USA, and Columbia (to name just two!) :)

Of course, there is a marked difference between the Home charge points (3.3kW), and the supplied brick (2.3 kW).
 
Home charge points will go as far as approx. 3.7 kW, or even twice that, same as public charge points (not Chademo). But the OBC (On Board Charger) is limited to 3.3 kW.
 
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