Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:36 am 
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gwatpe wrote:
I have been testing multiple ways of replacing battery %SOC on trips where corded recharging is unavailable..

Thanks for the heads up.
gwatpe wrote:
It seems that the PHEV may be considered under powered for any extended towing trip. The main difference between the PHEV and a traditional powered vehicle is related to the impact on towing that a depleted battery has. A normal vehicle with gears, power can be adapted to suit, without any residual impact on future power availability. The PHEV can suffer power loss when the battery is depleted.

I don’t think it is underpowered. I think it is lazy. With “seems underpowered” as a result. When driving conditions require such, fuel consumption can easily go up to 15 liter / 100 km or more. But when driving conditions are easy, fuel consumption will drop to 11 l / 100 km or even less (when coasting). So, when driving is easy, instead of preparing for the future by building up SOC, the engine kinda settles down. I am more or less convinced that if consumption would stay at 12 or maybe 13 l / 100 km, the car would easily maintain SOC at a high enough level to deal with whatever conditions you will encounter on a ‘normal’ extended towing trip.

Because you are able to maintain higher SOC, you will prevent (all or most of) the high revving of .the engine and have some SOC left at the end of the trip for some EV driving. So, I don't think overall average consumption would be affected. Unless this triggers you to drive faster, of course :mrgreen:

BTW: I think the car will suffer from power reduction, rather than power loss ;)

gwatpe wrote:
I have tried to use "anko" method as well, but cruise control is not available, so there is potential for speed variability that make interpretation of any measurements difficult.

Using this technique, this weekend I actually managed to enhance my SOC while towing my caravan on the motorway. Did I increase it’s power? No, I made it less lazy. Does it make a difference whether it is underpowered or lazy? Well, one is more easy to resolve then the other.

When towing, there is a 'zone', in which you only see the orange arrow from engine to wheels. Apparently no power going to the batteries and no power coming from the batteries. While towing a caravan on a flat road, you will spent most of the time in that zone. Unfortunately, as the BMU will tell you, a constant 9 - 12 A mps (3 - 4 kW) are being discharged from the battery. This power is fed into the E-motrors (1005 sure) as well as the generator (99.9% sure) to prevent them from dragging. At the cost of a little extra fuel, this power could be generated by the generator and fed into the motors, leaving SOC untouched. And another little bit of extra fuel would allow the SOC to actually increase.

Funny enough, I don't think average speed while towing has much impact on the ability to maintain SOC. Once you are driving fast enough to stop the charging process (and let's assume at motorway speeds you are), you can still gradually speed up (at a cost of higher fuel consumption) without taking power from the battery. Although I would not advise it, you could "pulse and glide" (as Prius owners call it) in B0 to allow the engine to generate some extra SOC during the glide phase. Then it shouldn't matter whether you pulse to 100 km/h and glide to 90 or pulse to 110 and glide to 100. As long as you don't pulse so hard that it requires power from the battery. During the Glide phase, about 76 Amps (25 kW) is fed into the batteries. Unfortunately but understandably, at higher SOC's this will be less. So maintaining SOC becomes easier when SOC is lower. Still get it?


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:18 am 
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anko wrote:
...
I don’t think it is underpowered. I think it is lazy. With “seems underpowered” as a result. When driving conditions require such, fuel consumption can easily go up to 15 liter / 100 km or more. But when driving conditions are easy, fuel consumption will drop to 11 l / 100 km or even less (when coasting). So, when driving is easy, instead of preparing for the future by building up SOC, the engine kinda settles down. I am more or less convinced that if consumption would stay at 12 or maybe 13 l / 100 km, the car would easily maintain SOC at a high enough level to deal with whatever conditions you will encounter on a ‘normal’ extended towing trip.
...



With the battery and petrol engine working together, it's not underpowered - in fact it is quite a fast car for its size and design. The trouble is that it is too willing to let the battery deplete - and quite slow to recharge it. This is where we need the "I'm not going to be recharging for several days" mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:26 am 
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
maby wrote:
This is where we need the "I'm not going to be recharging for several days" mode.
In the context of this topic, I don't think it has anything to do with recharging or not, but what would that mode be like, in your opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:57 am 
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Location: Lyon, France
anko wrote:
maby wrote:
This is where we need the "I'm not going to be recharging for several days" mode.
In the context of this topic, I don't think it has anything to do with recharging or not, but what would that mode be like, in your opinion?


It does exist : Charge mode ! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:06 am 
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Hmmm, this topic was created to discuss the 'issue' that Charge mode will not allow you to maintain SOC while towing or under heavy load. Your solution must be a solution to some other issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:08 am 
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Sorry, I had already forgotten your first post on this topic ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:11 am 
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Yeah, topics tend to drift ... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:14 pm 
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As a retired HGV driver and long time caravan owner there is no doubt in my mind that I would not have chosen an EV hybrid for towing. Give me diesel for pulling power every time. I also believe that the Outlander PHEV is the only vehicle manufactured on the market that will tow a trailer/caravan. Must be a reason for such why other manufacturers say towing is a no no.

Angel.

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Angelfire wrote:
Must be a reason for such why other manufacturers say towing is a no no.

Such as Volkswagen and Volvo? Wakeup time ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining SOC while towing a caravan / under heavy loa
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:10 am 
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When you are concerned with overloading the engine: Max output is not affected. Overal average output is not affected either. There will less periods of serial mode (so less engine racing). As a plus, the engine runs at a higher load and thus a higher efficiency. I think fuel consumption may actually go down, as you might actually end up in EV mode at some point.
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