Battery Charge/Save Buttons

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LastTemplar

Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
12
Hi everyone, just got my 3h model 2 days ago and I love it :)
I read through the whole user manual a couple of times but I am still very interested in how those two buttons next to the gear shift work. The manual seems like it was translated with google translate and I cannot clearly understand what those buttons do.
Could anyone explain what exactly the Battery Charge and the Battery Save buttons do?

Thank you! :)
 
Welcome ;)

Both CHARGE and SAVE ... cause to start the ICE (sometime not immediately, but, that's a different story)

When hitting CHARGE ... the ICE start and does charge the main battery (note ICE will continue to run also when the car is not moving, it may stop only in case of regen breaking)
When hitting SAVE ... the ICE start (if the car is moving) .. and the ICE run just for keep the battery charge level constant ... so in practice ICE start for cover eventual electric energy consumption ... you should experience that the ICE should stop when the car is not moving.

When and how to use CHARGE and SAVE is a long discussion ... in practice ... normally it is better tolet the car to do everything in automatic mode


PS: Both CHARGE and SAVE do nothing if the battery is over 80% fully charged ...
 
When the battery shows as empty, there is still around 30% of charge left, which the car uses as a reserve. When the ICE starts, it tries to run at its most efficient, which typically means with a wide throttle opening. So that the engine doesn't run away, it uses the surplus ICE power to recharge the batteries, and the range slowly increases. When it has added about 2 miles range, it goes back to EV.

When you select the Save button, it basically does the same process as above, but keeping the range about the same as when you pressed the button.

When you select the Charge button, the engine will still try to run most effieciently, but won't switch off till the batteries are nearly full charged or if you're putting a lot of power into the battery via regeneration. I'm not sure exactly what the charge is when the ICE stops running.

Charge can be useful if you're going into an EV-only zone, but it is quite expensive. It typically takes 3 miles of petrol to charge for 1 mile on EV. Save can be useful if you're doing a motorway section followed by some town driving at the end. As it behaves much the same as if the battery is showing empty, there's little downside as long as you do empty the battery in the end.

[Edit] D'oh! Beaten to it! Agree with the previous post, and I didn't realise it was 80% [/Edit]
 
Wow, thanks so much for such fast replies guys :)
this makes much more sense now, very good explanations. Do you use these buttons often? I feel like I would rather not touch these and let the car figure out everything on its own.
Also, is there anything on the dashboard that tells if the vehicle is currently running on ICE or Power? I can't usually tell if the ICE is running, it's so quiet compared to my previous car, which was a Diesel Nissan X-Trail :D
 
LastTemplar said:
Wow, thanks so much for such fast replies guys :)
this makes much more sense now, very good explanations. Do you use these buttons often? I feel like I would rather not touch these and let the car figure out everything on its own.
Also, is there anything on the dashboard that tells if the vehicle is currently running on ICE or Power? I can't usually tell if the ICE is running, it's so quiet compared to my previous car, which was a Diesel Nissan X-Trail :D

I have been using mainly the charge button

During holidays trips, which I can't recharge my car by the main (like I do when I'm at home) ... I do the following:
- When running between villages, so not using any autobahn ... I like to click on charge and use B3 when I'm between villages at speed over 70km/h ... and then run in EV mode inside villages ... the PHEV design is not efficient when running in hybrid mode with speed below ~65km/h ... so not only crossing a village in EV mode is better for the people of the village, but as well, it is more fuel efficient too to run in pure EV mode when driving slow

- When I cruise on autobahn ... I like to use CHARGE ... for have 10/15km of EV range .. and then switch to EV mode for 10/15km ... and charge again ... this because I believe making the ICE to run continuously for longer time then on normal automatic mode (every 2km) it sounds more efficient to me

Only issue ... you should all time remember to switch off CHARGE .. else if CHARGE is on .. and car is standing at a traffic light .. it is a big waste in efficiency

Other challenge ... when using CHARGE ... is that when arriving at destination ready for charge the car from main .. ideally the EV range should be zero ... and it is not always easy to save or charge the exact km needed for reach the destination which is normally outside the high speed street which should be beneficial to be done with CHARGE on (but just for get the exact needed EV range for arrive at destination)

PS: I did notice that using charge the ICE kick in in a more lazy mode ... while SAVE does kick in almost in full power mode ...
 
ThudnBlundr said:
Charge can be useful if you're going into an EV-only zone, but it is quite expensive. It typically takes 3 miles of petrol to charge for 1 mile on EV.
I strongly believe it is a misconception to think Charge mode is expensive. Charge mode burns as much fuel as normal mode and / or Save mode with the same nett result. The only difference is who is in control over the start / stop pattern, you or the car.

Btw: what does "It typically takes 3 miles of petrol to charge for 1 mile on EV. " really mean? Do you mean to say it requires 3 miles of driving to gain 1 mile of ev driving? If so, what does it say about the cost of running Charge mode?
 
LastTemplar said:
Also, is there anything on the dashboard that tells if the vehicle is currently running on ICE or Power? I can't usually tell if the ICE is running, it's so quiet compared to my previous car, which was a Diesel Nissan X-Trail :D
Probably the easiest way is to use this:

ivyarn.jpg
 
Regulo said:
LastTemplar said:
Also, is there anything on the dashboard that tells if the vehicle is currently running on ICE or Power? I can't usually tell if the ICE is running, it's so quiet compared to my previous car, which was a Diesel Nissan X-Trail :D
Probably the easiest way is to use this:

ivyarn.jpg

Thank you! I've totally missed that button somehow.
 
It takes what 3-4 litres of fuel to charge the battery (and what 40-45min?).

This is extra over and above what it uses to power the vehicles motion.

So for me that would be $7-8 to charge to 80% rather than 80c or so overnight for electricity.

Its useful if you want charge for EV only zone or need it for big hills or towing.
 
robdickinson said:
It takes what 3-4 litres of fuel to charge the battery (and what 40-45min?).

This is extra over and above what it uses to power the vehicles motion.

So for me that would be $7-8 to charge to 80% rather than 80c or so overnight for electricity.

Its useful if you want charge for EV only zone or need it for big hills or towing.

As I said ... push charge when the car is not moving it make no sense .. and this is the case that 80% charge cost 3L of fuel

If the car is moving at a decent speed it is a totally different story

For example ... while cruising in a autobahn at over 130km/h, so the ICE is running anyhow ... I think click on charge is a good thing .. since it will increase the load of the petrol engine for charge the battery and this should cause to have a more efficient usage of the petrol engine ... assuming that the increase of efficiency of petrol engine does cover the ~10% energy lost in the conversion from kinetic energy into electric energy

In my case ... I'm now cruising around 120lm/h in the autobahn, and I manually do the cycle charge-discharge ICE/EV , by pressing CHARGE for reach 10/15km EV range and then switch in EV mode .... assuming I'm doing long distance ...for shorter distance .. I plan to charge in the autobahn for have enough EV range for end my trip in EV mode (assuming I can charge at destination)
 
I think thats speculation.

It needs a steady extra ~30kw of power from the engine to charge, you pay for that in extra fuel use regardless of if the car is moving or not
 
Not just speculation. Charging while stationary requires the engine to turn over approx. 60.000 times (40 mins * 1500 rpm). This by itself consumes a lot of fuel. Charging while driving (especially at speeds above
60 km/h) requires no (additional) turn overs. So the extra fuel is spent on generating electricity and not on making the engine spin.

As a matter of fact, the "30kW needed to charge" you mention seems highly speculative. Typical charge rate is much, much lower than that.

When stationary: (80% - 30%) * 12 kWh = 6 kWh. To add this amount in 30 - 40 minutes requires about 9 - 12 kW from the engine (ignoring losses in generator and battery).
 
Regulo said:
Probably the easiest way is to use this:

ivyarn.jpg
But keep in mind, this graphic is meant to show energy flow, nor whether the engine is running or not. And it is not very truthful.

When coasting at "parallel mode" speeds the engine-to-wheel symbol in the graphic may turn off while in fact the engine is running idle and consuming fuel. But not generating any useful power.

On the other hand, during the warm up phase, the engine-to-battery symbol may light up intermittently, where the engine is running all the time. But never generates any useful power.
 
anko said:
Regulo said:
Probably the easiest way is to use this:

ivyarn.jpg
But keep in mind, this graphic is meant to show energy flow, nor whether the engine is running or not. And it is not very truthful.

When coasting at "parallel mode" speeds the engine-to-wheel symbol in the graphic may turn off while in fact the engine is running idle and consuming fuel. But not generating any useful power.

On the other hand, during the warm up phase, the engine-to-battery symbol may light up intermittently, where the engine is running all the time. But never generates any useful power.


Thanks for the info. I went and read more about the 3 driving modes the vehicle has, it seems that you don't actually have any power over what driving mode you want to use, it always selects them automatically.
 
LastTemplar said:
Thanks for the info. I went and read more about the 3 driving modes the vehicle has, it seems that you don't actually have any power over what driving mode you want to use, it always selects them automatically.
Are you talking about EV versus Serial Hybrid versus Parallel Hybrid modes? You have a little bit control over that. For example:

Selecting Charge mode while in EV mode will case one of the two Hybrid modes to be selected.
Flooring the accelerator while in EV mode or in Parallel Hybrid mode will select Serial Hybrid more.
 
ThudnBlundr said:
But then again, why do you need any control? Some very clever people have spent a while perfecting the system...
Based on what they know or believe to know about our usage pattern. When towing my caravan, I would prefer series mode over parallel mode, even at higher speeds, as it allows me to maintain a decent soc for when I need it at the cost of a slightly higher fuel consumption.

And maybe just because we can? :p
 
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