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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm 
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STS134 wrote:
jaapv wrote:
Well, I have run tens of thousands of miles on the German Autobahn @ 150 kph, long 4% to 8% inclines all over the place,

Can you provide some links on Google Maps of where these long 4% to 8% inclines are?

All over the place. Feel free to drive them.

jaapv wrote:
always on Charge, heavily loaded regularly too, added plenty of 10-12% climbs on mountain passes in the Alps as well, and at 130.000 km and six years the battery is better than expected. Not just me, that goes for thousands of PHEVs.

Well I've driven up Mount Umunhum, Mount Hamilton, and to Donner Summit in my PHEV. These places have grades of over 6%, but they aren't nearly as demanding on vehicles as the I-5 Grapevine section. The Grapevine is extremely demanding because it begins with a 5 mile, 6% grade that people do at 80-90+ mph uphill. And even after this grade levels out a bit, the road continues climbing for another 6 miles. This is the only place I've ever literally had the accelerator to the floor in a vehicle for over 2 minutes straight, just to keep up with traffic. A 10-12% grade is pretty easy, if you're doing it at 35 mph. Try it at 70 mph and it's a completely different ballgame.
Sounds a bit like the A30 between A1 and A2. The only time I ever saw the reduced power warning - not that it actually slowed down, I just eased up a bit. Four people, luggage, skibox, 160 kph with the throttle floored constantly.

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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:57 am 
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Location: Saratoga, CA
jaapv wrote:
Sounds a bit like the A30 between A1 and A2. The only time I ever saw the reduced power warning - not that it actually slowed down, I just eased up a bit. Four people, luggage, skibox, 160 kph with the throttle floored constantly.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2300515 ... a=!5m1!1e4

This area? I don't really see anything here that compares to the Grapevine. The very highest points of the terrain in this area are no more than 250m high. The steepest section of the Grapevine gains ~500m in altitude over a ~8-9 km distance, and the entire section gains ~800m in altitude, very quickly at first, and more slowly later on, but NEVER descends.


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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:50 am 
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Oh, do you mean driving something like the Stelvio? https://www.colcorsa.com/tour/stelvio-pass/ 1000-2750 m. Average incline something like 10%.
I've done that regularly with the PHEV without any problem, staring full and ending empty, but never low power mode. I thought you meant high-speed inclines. Try the Brenner then. Officially 100 or 110 kph, but especially the Italian side attracts much higher speeds.

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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:08 pm 
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jaapv wrote:
Oh, do you mean driving something like the Stelvio? https://www.colcorsa.com/tour/stelvio-pass/ 1000-2750 m. Average incline something like 10%.
I've done that regularly with the PHEV without any problem, staring full and ending empty, but never low power mode. I thought you meant high-speed inclines. Try the Brenner then. Officially 100 or 110 kph, but especially the Italian side attracts much higher speeds.

Yes, but high speed inclines that are monotonically increasing for 8km and gain 500m in elevation over that distance. In Germany, I'd expect such things to exist perhaps in the southern section of the country, near the Alps. Basically, something like the first part (the region marked "1") of this chart (Y-axis in feet, X-axis in miles):

Attachment:
Grapevine Elevation Profile.jpg


The "0" point on the X-axis is the Grapevine exit. The number "1" is about where the Lebec Rd exit is, and the end of the first shaded region is Tejon Pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:32 pm 
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Yes, Southern Germany has plenty, and the righthand lane will do about 60 (on steep inclines) - 90 by the lorries, the middle one 140, the lefthand 200+. (kph, that is) and the inclines are quite long. On the A7 at Aalen- the watershed between Rhine and Donau- I fail to push the PHEV over 140 in some parts.
I only mentioned the A30 because that was the only time in six years that I managed to get the battery level down to the absolute limit.

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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:41 pm 
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STS134 wrote:
wws wrote:
The Grapevine is kind of an acid test for any vehicle. I've done it in a Diesel moving truck and was lucky to do 35 mph up the grade. My ICE cars show a lot of transmission heating going up it. If I were doing it daily, bigger tranny coolers would be needed. On the Silicon Valley to Los Angeles run, highway 152 has some challenging grades too, and I see the same.

CA-152 doesn't have anything nearly as challenging as the Grapevine. I'm not even sure if it has a 6% grade, but if it's that steep in any section, it's only for about maybe half a mile. Furthermore, the section between Gilroy and Casa De Fruta doesn't have traffic that moves at 85-90 mph up the hill. The section near the San Luis Dam does, but it's very short


Climbing from east to west, by the dam, has some steep places. Not Grapevine steep. But again, scanning my tranny temp in a couple different ICE cars, definitely shows the cooling system working hard.

Speaking of steep grades in California, have you ever driven up Old Priest Grade Road to Yosemite? Believe it or not, it is an old wagon road. I have no idea how they ever drove horses, or any other livestock, pulling wagons up that road. The 'new' road is much easier, but also much longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Outlander PHEV Climbs the Grapevine
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:35 pm 
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wws wrote:
Speaking of steep grades in California, have you ever driven up Old Priest Grade Road to Yosemite? Believe it or not, it is an old wagon road. I have no idea how they ever drove horses, or any other livestock, pulling wagons up that road. The 'new' road is much easier, but also much longer.


Yes, I've been on it. But I did it at around 20-40 mph and I definitely didn't have to floor it.


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