D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)

First of all, thanks for all your amazing work !
I must say 2017 European model is as stubborn as Australian one :lol:, but A-method was successfull.

Please, look at the pic, we can see:
previous battery capacity = 32.7 Ah,
new capacity after reset = 40 Ah,
new capacity after first charge = 39.8 Ah.

Car is working as always. I still didn't drain the battery, just drove for 8 km for now.

I was waiting to read a battery capacity of 38Ah this morning, after first charge, but not 39.8 Ah.

Edited: After 4 full charges, battery capacity drop to 39.4 Ah.

Watching this thread with interest, although I'm not yet brave enough to try any of these methods on mine...

Heydr's last post caught my attention - charging 9.6kWh sounds like a lot! It's 80% of the theoretical max capacity of the 12kWh battery when new. This suggests that the BMU reset is allowing a depth of discharge to below 20%, whereas as I understand it the vehicle is designed not to discharge below around 30% to preserve battery life. Is there a risk that these methods will result in premature battery failure down the track?

That said, I'd love to have 9.6kWh usable charge - my normal overnight charge is around 7.8kWh ...

BrianTheSnail said:

Watching this thread with interest, although I'm not yet brave enough to try any of these methods on mine...

Heydr's last post caught my attention - charging 9.6kWh sounds like a lot! It's 80% of the theoretical max capacity of the 12kWh battery when new. This suggests that the BMU reset is allowing a depth of discharge to below 20%, whereas as I understand it the vehicle is designed not to discharge below around 30% to preserve battery life. Is there a risk that these methods will result in premature battery failure down the track?

That said, I'd love to have 9.6kWh usable charge - my normal overnight charge is around 7.8kWh ...

Click to expand...

Of course degradation exist, but PHEV BMU is too conservative, to avoid a battery crash in 8 years.

You can find in internet people selling second hand battery cells:
"Yuasa LEV 40 cell (used), from Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
Tested capacity: 80% or better."
Probably these cells comes from an Outlander user tired to get less than 70% of driving range after 3 years.

I'd prefer a good driving range assuming a battery change in 6 years.

If you do a BMU reset, then you must keep an eye on WatchDog and press Charge or Save button when cell voltage reach 3.7 V.

SolarPHEVcat said:

You can find in internet people selling second hand battery cells:
"Yuasa LEV 40 cell (used), from Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
Tested capacity: 80% or better."
Probably these cells comes from an Outlander user tired to get less than 70% of driving range after 3 years.

Click to expand...

Really? I don't recall anyone here paying for a new battery out of their own pocket. So where do these come from? - not Mitsu or their dealers, who would have to return for disposal under environmental regs (at least in EU) if swapped out under warranty. Surely the most likely source would be accident write-offs, when range will be irrelevant. Unless, of course, a disappointed owner has driven his PHEV into a tree to claim the insurance. :lol:

I also had success. Took a while to get the 'bad battery' I used to achieve exactly the right voltage to just be enough to start charging but not too much that it did not act as a normal start up. Saw the 'EV Service Required' alert many times, but only when you have the extended delay for the last charging click, do you know you have been successful. It operated exactly as described. After the reset the battery showed 60 hours, and 105% or 40 Ah. The EV Service Alarm was up.

Then after complete shut down and start up the EV Service alarm disappeared and the battery reported 99.7% and I now had 54 km range instead of the 36 km when my battery would only charge to 73.9%. This is a 5 year old PHEV with 68,000 km on the clock.

MadTechNutter, you are a hero!

I had the same issue as smbunn, getting the old battery to the correct voltage took lots of tries.

For everyones information, I had discharged the old battery too much, it was reading about 8.5v disconnected which was not enough power to activate the wall charger. I tried trickle charging it but that was a slow process.

I found that by connecting the AUX battery to start charging and connecting the old battery to the terminal in the fuse box the car charged the old battery up.

After about half an hour of retrying every ten minutes or so, the old battery had enough power to kick the wall charger into action.

BINGO! from 80.5% to 100%

Mine is a UK 2014 4HS with only 123000 miles on it.

Just hope it lasts... I will let you all know how it goes.

Update.... 1 week later 0.4 kAh mixed a/c and d/c and 500 miles lost 1.5% down to 37.5 Ah. Not surprising really given the age of the battery and mileage.

2nd week. Another 0.4 kAh mixed a/c and d/c and 1000 miles, down to 36.6 Ah (96.3%)

3rd week. 0.3 kAh, 1000 miles, down again, 35.9 Ah (94.5%)

Heydr said:

I have reset my 2015 Outlander using the diode dropper. It happened for me with 3 diodes and 9.1v on the DOG. I connected to the negative terminal lead as originally described. I have tried all the other methods without success.

Reset to 40Ah, but only charging to 38.2 Ah as expected.

I run my battery to empty on the GOM every day. My previous overnite charge to 4.1v per cell was about 8 to 8.2 kwh. After reset my charge is 9.4kwh. Battery cell at full GOM discharge is 3.6 to 3.7v under moderate load.
Thank u very much for the diode dropper description. It worked brilliantly.

.

Click to expand...

After 7 months I had dropped back to 34Ah (8.4 kwh overnite charge) so I was going to do the Diode Dropper again. Just before I did it I tried the fast D. Method again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5P_MpAnxbg


It worked first go. I have tried this before with no luck but after my Diode dropper reset, this easier method seems to work.
Go figure??

Does this actually give one more range or does it just change the guess-o-meter to a bigger number?

The latter.

If that's the case, then it sure seems that we've wasted a lot of time and effort in trying to change a silly number on the dashboard

mellobob said:

Does this actually give one more range or does it just change the guess-o-meter to a bigger number?

Click to expand...

The former

michael8554 said:

mellobob said:

Does this actually give one more range or does it just change the guess-o-meter to a bigger number?

Click to expand...

The former

Click to expand...

for a little while

I think I'm sorry I asked the question ... and more thoroughly confused than ever

mellobob said:

I think I'm sorry I asked the question ... and more thoroughly confused than ever

Click to expand...

Just regard this whole BMU reset stuff as the natural desire of humankind to tinker and not leave well enough alone. To me it is very simple - if one wants an EV that runs long distances on electricity, get a BEV. If one wants a hybrid that runs some distance on electricity, more or less, get a PHEV. Both systems have compromises. With a PHEV the distances run will not be that impressive and decline over time. That does not change the concept of the car, nor the usability.

I think jaapv has made the sensible answer, go with that and you will have years of EV driving.

I was being contrary, as I don't believe it's clear whether Resets work or not.

I cannot see how a BMU reset can overcome the Li-Ion physics. The BMU sees the battery full at 4.1V/cell and "take it easy on me" at 3.7V/cell.. The it learns the SoC between this two values tracing a curve of charge and discharge energy. That is it.
Reseting the BMU will only force it to think the battery is new and start with a SoC curve for a new battery. After a few cycles it will learn again the curve for the worn out battery. It will by no means change one Ion inside the Battery.

Cheers.

Alex.

AlexBorro said:

I cannot see how a BMU reset can overcome the Li-Ion physics. The BMU sees the battery full at 4.1V/cell and "take it easy on me" at 3.7V/cell.. The it learns the SoC between this two values tracing a curve of charge and discharge energy. That is it.
Reseting the BMU will only force it to think the battery is new and start with a SoC curve for a new battery. After a few cycles it will learn again the curve for the worn out battery. It will by no means change one Ion inside the Battery.

Cheers.

Alex.

Click to expand...

And it cannot be helping longevity.


https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die

I am sure all you experts are correct in what you say about the natural degradation and the dangers of overuling this on the life span of the battery.

I am just a poor ignoramous that cannot believe that the batteries are naturally degrading at the rate that is being seen.

What i do believe is that Mitsubishi should be more customer service orientated and include in their service schedule a check on the real state of the battery, not just rely on the guesses by its software/firmware, and have the ability to restore the battery capacity in the software/firmware to what it actually is so that the owner can always get the maximum electric drive as they expected when they spent the extra money on buying a PHEV. They could also consider updating their software/firmware so that it is more accurate in its guess.

Without this we might just as well have bought a "self charging hybrid" and saved the money.

Katmandu said:

Without this we might just as well have bought a "self charging hybrid" and saved the money.

Click to expand...

Not me and similar "ideal" users whose daily mileage is well within even a degraded battery. I'm still getting 20+ miles per charge after more than 5 years - I'm well in pocket :mrgreen:

Me too.

I can do 95% of journeys in EV mode and the occasional much longer jouney without "range anxiety".

Self Charging makes no sense to me, have those makers really got it so wrong?

Significant economic and environmental benefits for me.